Military gap years?

[YourFairViewer]

What does everyone think of military gap years from this week's news? https://theconversation.com/uk-looks-to-military-gap-years-to-boost-recruitment-in-the-face-of-growing-geopolitical-tension-258207?utm_medium=article_clipboard_share&utm_source=theconversation.com

I like the idea of GI bill in UK, too.
Age 17-18, My dad was in USA national guard for 6 months (like territorial Army) as a stop gap to help him grow up a bit... and advantage of this is that he ended up being exempt from Vietnam draft.

Am wondering why instead of 'gap year' the decision isn't to boost the TA package some more. Service in TA could fit very well around Uni year ... my dad did NG service to earn money in summers inbetween Uni years.

The salary that squaddies can earn is really good, and officers even better, in UK military. My oldest DS is an officer and earns a lot more than me.

I am a pacifist at heart. But sadly we have to accept the world we actually live in. If we can't defend ourselves, someone will take advantage of that

I still wouldn't fight, the new owners might do a better job of running the place.

No one will invade anyway, it's cold and wet and what resources we have left are so far under ground no one could be bothered mining it.

Those with money will be topping up their tans in the Cayman Islands because you can bet they ain't fighting.

Ok. Good to know. Quite a relief for the country.

Given the ruling regime's rush to war I wouldn't go near it. If you served any time they would put you in the reserves which would mean you would be the first to be called up, sent to war and then get blown up by a drone filmed in 4K TV with crappy slavic heavy metal music playing.

@dubsie

"I still wouldn't fight, the new owners might do a better job of running the place"

I can see your point.

A highly unlikely hypothetical event but let's say Russia did successfully invade the UK. What would the day to day difference be for ordinary people? Very little I would suggest and certainly not enough difference to warrant sacrificing your life or your children's lives.

Moreover those most likely to do the fighting - white male right leaning working class would also be those that would be least affected if say the Russians were in charge. So why bother ?

Australia is already doing this - aside from sailors, it doesn't look as though any of the roles are front-line.

WTAF @1dayatatime

My god Russia is the pits @1dayatatime . If they invaded then yes, life would be very different. Definitely worth fighting against

Thanks everyone for replies and thoughts. Yep, as article says it's already underway in Australia as a model, and I think I'd rather this optional choice for young people than conscription! theconversation.com/uk-looks-to-military-gap-years-to-boost-recruitment-in-the-face-of-growing-geopolitical-tension-258207?utm_medium=article_clipboard_share&utm_source=theconversation.com

But specifically how would it be different?

And would it be so different that it's worth losing either your life or your children's lives over?

I assume you haven’t been to Russia, @1dayatatime and to can’t now because of Ukraine. I do not fancy living under the rule of the Russian state, given what they’ve done to Ukraine and Syria. Bloodless or safe it would not be. There’s no cosy fantasy where the working man has a better time of it under Putin, given what he’s done to his own people.

The examples of Ukraine is where the invasion was and still is resisted is why it has resulted in death and destruction.

But hypothetically let's say Russian troops arrived in Dover and the British public and military said "crack on and take control" because we are not going to do anything to stop you.

Then there would be no loss of life or destruction and my question is specifically what would be different under Russian rule for ordinary people and would these changes be enough to motivate ordinary people to risk their and their children's lives for.

Personally I can't see how it would make such a massive difference that I would be willing to sacrifice my life or my children's lives for. Would you?

But happy to be corrected with specific examples.

Do you know, I haven’t noticed any friendly Russian takeovers in the last hundred years of the type you describe, @1dayatatime

Why do you think that might be?

@1dayatatime

As @bombastix says try finding a "friendly" Russian takeover of foreign territory in the last century....

You might want to research what has been happening to many of the native population (including some of the children of none ethnic Russian, none Russian speaking parents) in the recently Russian occupied portions of Ukraine.

Well that would be due to WW2 and the destruction and death caused by it.

My hypothetical question is what if there was no resistance at all to a Russian takeover of the UK then there would be no destruction or death. It wouldn't be in the interests of an occupying Government to destroy stuff.

And specifically how would day to day life be different for ordinary UK citizens?

Do you know anything,.anything at all,.about life in Russia?

I can't work out if you are deeply ill informed or just on a wind up mission

@1dayatatime Well, would you rather you/your child be conscripted by the MOD to do logistics in Bicester or Telford, or by Russia to fight in Ukraine or Chechnya?

My DH did something like this in the 80s- a short service limited commission. A month or so at Sandhurst then deployed to Texas to train in tanks. It was tough but he says he learned obsessive punctuality and excellent ironing and shoe polishing skills. Lots of his cohort signed up- he didn't but I think it was a positive experience.

@CassandraWebb

"I can't work out if you are deeply ill informed or just on a wind up mission"

This is neither being ill informed or a wind up mission but simply a hypothetical question of "specifically how would day to day life be different for ordinary people if a foreign power took over control of the UK" with no conflict involved".

Now in this example I have used Russia but it could equally apply to other countries with of course different outcomes.

But if Russia installed a puppet Government in Westminster specifically what would be different and would it impact ordinary people?

@1dayatatime

But if Russia installed a puppet Government in Westminster specifically what would be different and would it impact ordinary people

The Prague Spring, occupied Ukraine territories/big chunk of Eastern Europe after mid-1945 are all available as examples...

The Soviets Russians haven't tended to allow the occupied territories to carry on as before.

Firstly to be clear I am only using Russia as an example of an occupying power, I am certainly no fan of Putin. And I could equally have used the US or say Iran as an example of the occupying power.

But if you take post war Eastern Europe or the Prague Spring, yes there were restrictions on freedom of speech but this has little impact on ordinary working people who simply wanted a secure job, a home and to look after their families.

They weren't interested in demonstrating or freedom of speech (unless these things were threatened). Look at China the majority of the population are perfectly happy with Communist Party rule.

I really really disagree. I have family who grew up or lived as adults in countries occupied by another power.
It was of huge consequence to them. Their rights were eroded, their land exploited. They couldn't speak freely.

There are lots of books on this topic if you would like to educate yourself

@1dayatatime

Lesson from.history.

It's an edge case but let me give you an example how an occupying power installing a puppet government worked out where I now live (France).

Country gets invaded.
Puppet government installed with offices both in the national capital and regional/departmental capitals...
Day one - round up anyone who might oppose the new regime..so former local politicians, mayors, trade union leaders, student activists, plus plus disappear...

Day two onwards the rest of the population (mostly) decides to.keep their heads down, hold onto " secure job, a home,.look after their families"...

So now very "'Ello, Ello" .....but "Ello Ello", whilst entertaining, is largely rowlocks, for many it didn't work like that.

In reality every now and then the occupiers kick down doors and dissapear another tranche of those they deem undesirable...

In reality if/ when when occupying power starts to run out of labour it begins conscripting kids and young adults from the occupied territories and ships them off to perform manual labour on war projects....(currently the Russians are keen on conscripting youths from the outlying regions to go.and fight in Ukraine). The parents, hard working or not don't get a say in it...

Protest and if the occupiers/ local proxies get really p'd off they indulge in a bit of random killing/burning down of homes, even entire villages.

If you've gone along with this, you've kept your head down...well, tough...

Now if you feel that wouldn't/couldn't happen if an occupying power, especially one like Russia, installed a puppet government in the UK then frankly you are deluding yourself.

I'd rather not take the risk.

So this is a good example of what I am doing a really bad job on trying to explain:

www.ipsos.com/en-uk/third-britons-higher-among-men-and-young-people-would-take-arms-country-confidence-armed-forces

www.google.com/gasearch?q=proportion%20of%20british%20willing%20to%20fight%20for%20country&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:b52eb25b,vid:t_m-VF91brM,st:0

What stands out for me is that those most likely to be willing to join the military to defend the country (namely white working class conservative, less educated, males from poorer backgrounds) would be least affected by any authoritarian regime taking away freedom of speech etc

Whereas those that are least likely to be willing to join the military (namely non white, middle class , liberal, more educated and female) would be most affected by an authoritarian regime taking away freedom of speech etc.

Which raises the question of why?

And why would the first group choose to fight and die to protect the second group when they are not willing to do it for themselves.