Why do people like reform?

[TheGoogleMum]

I haven't been keeping very up to date with politics. I usually vote Labour. I don't really understand the popularity of reform, could anyone explain it to me?
As far as I'm aware Farage doesn't actually do anything when he wins a seat somewhere so I'm not convinced they'll actually do anything? Is it just a protest vote that's gone a bit far?

@Maitri108

"It's highly unlikely you voted Labour but it's a complex problem and won't be solved in a few months. You admit that you have no idea how you'd approach the situation and Labour are working on it, as well as all the other problems we have due to terrible mismanagement."

Labour's plan of smashing the gangs " is not working because it does nothing to address the demand side of illegal migration. If you get rid of one smuggling gang then another will simply pop up in its place because it is financially very lucrative.

Equally Reform's "plan" is unworkable because the idea of "sending them back" relies on another country being willing to accept them (which they are not).

The solution to my mind is threefold:

1. Deter - make the UK a less attractive destination for migrants with things like ID cards and cracking down on employers using illegal labour.
2. Detect- for example find out where the smuggling gangs are getting their boats and outboards from and making it a lot harder for them to operate.
3. Deport - where possible deport failed asylum seekers as quickly as possible

This isn’t doing much in fact numbers and costs are going up.

But the numbers of crossings are going up.

On the basis Labour is making things worse presumably even the useless Conservatives were doing better. I expect they would also have tried similar to all those fancy sounding things too, as immigration is the main concern of voters, but found they didn't work.

They are reducing claims by fast tracking agreeing decisions and then spreading the immigrants throughout the UK mainly in the north. It's very easy to see the sudden change in demographic in the north east for example.

Let's wait and see. On current numbers Labour are failing so Reform have a good chance of winning the next election and all the waffle about new fancy quangos will just be seen as useless, expensive fluff.

As others have said, we need to deter people from wanting to come to the UK in the first place.

Make it harder for people to find "black economy" work by tackling the black economy, i.e. illegal working, modern slavery, tax evasion, benefit fraud etc.

Compulsory biometric ID cards so the law enforcement authorities know who they're dealing with to stop people "sharing" ID documents or slipping away avoiding court/bail etc after being arrested and released using false/fake ID.

Massive clamp down on money laundering via Turkish barbers, nail bars, ethnic food speciality shops, mobile phone accessory shops, dodgy takeaways etc., that never seem to have any customers. Clamp down on modern slavery in hand car washes, food processing factories (abatoirs), the scrap metal and other trades, etc.

To an extent, that's probably part of what Rishi was hoping to do with his Rwanda plan - get the message across that "irregular" immigrants would get sent somewhere like that, and of course, it solved the problem often cited of other countries refusing to accept them back - Rwanda wanted them! But of course, like most things Rishi did, he screwed it up!

Labour's support is collapsing in previous "red wall" Northern areas because they're relocating these irregular immigrants into Northern towns and cities, but not putting in any support or law enforcement infrastructure, so crime is rising, anti social behaviour is rising, etc. These are places already suffering from London Centric policies and feel they're being kicked when they're down by large influxes of "problematic" people. It was bad enough when councils of run down seaside towns embraced the likes of released prisoners to help fill their empty guest houses that caused massive social and crime problems, but it's a kick in the teeth for some of those same places, having dozens/hundreds of illegal immigrants being bussed in as well.

Yes the numbers are going up because it's not an issue that is easily solved in a few months. If it was easily solved in a few months, the Tories would have done it - let's give them some credit.

Asylum seekers have always been spread out around the country, that's not a Labour policy, it's been going on for years.

Not everyone is obsessed with asylum seekers. Some of us have other concerns such as lack of investment, wage stagnation, failing public services, roads, social care, benefit cuts, increasing deprivation, housing and so on.

@1dayatatime

The Tories tried to make the UK a 'hostile environment' and it evidently didn't work. There was a report yesterday about asylum seekers who were forced into sex work in order to feed their children as they are given such little money to live on.

You're talking about economic migrants for example, Albanians who came here and are involved in gangs and crime. We have an agreement with Albania to deport them and very few come over now.

If we want to cut down on crime then we need to invest more in crime enforcement.

ID cards have very little deterrence in other countries that have them. For example Germany takes in most of the asylum seekers in Europe and has ID cards.

The current government have already invested in the HO and are trying to clear the back log. There are already international efforts to work on smuggling gangs but you need international agreement and can't control how much effort a country puts into it. Some officials are easily bribed.

The majority of people are concerned about immigration. Polls suggest it is one of the top issues. Whoever solves it will win the election (in my opinion).(actually edit..only Labour will be able to "solve" it but if they can they will shoot Reform's fox)

Many of the issues you list are connected to the rise in population and corresponding fall in GDP/capita. We are a more populated but poorer country.

How can it be solved by any party without winning an election first? What are we going to do? Keep electing a different party every time we have a GE in the vain hope that they’ll solve an insoluble problem?

No, many of the issues I raised are to do with austerity and lack of investment as well as deregulation.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49594-general-election-2024-what-are-the-most-important-issues-for-voters

A poll before last year's election didn't show immigration as the most important issue for voters, it was by far cost of living.

Things are changing going from last July to now. The most recent poll put Reform on 33% and other major parties falling back. It is showing that’s it’s a factor.

And a pretty major one given the fast changes in a fairly short time.

There’s four years for it all to change again. Look what voting intention looked like four years ago.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/35986-voting-intention-con-46-lab-28-19-20-may

Yes we really do

If Labour significantly reduce both legal and illegal immigration they may have a chance.

Nah. It's immigration. Population over 70 million on the way. It's unsustainable, particularly the NHS. Particularly as Rachel Reeves isn't a very good Chancellor so the economy won't grow much.

If you're only reading the right wing press, it's not surprising that you believe people are fixated on asylum seekers.

However you're picking up on two issues: small boats and immigration for work and studying. They're separate concerns.

I notice you're blaming everything wrong in the country on these two issues. You're not taking into account Ukraine, privatisation of utilities, deregulation, right to buy, austerity or lack of investment or globalisation.

Nor examined why we have so much immigration such as an aging population or lack of vital skills.

Blaming foreigners is much simpler.

If you're only reading the left wing press...etc

I think the polls are pretty incontrovertible. Also if the left are seen to be trying to minimise the issue or brush it under the carpet this will fuel the Reform vote even further. Currently they are on course to win the next election and I would hazard a guess a lot of that is due to immigration. People believe what they can see with their own eyes.

They're currently ahead in the polls, they have a few seats and you think that's uncontroversial evidence they'll govern the country in four years.

I don't believe the left are trying to brush the issue under the carpet because they are taking steps to address the issues as well as the other problems in the country.

It's very blinkered, to focus solely on one thing to the detriment of everything else. Some people haven't learnt from Brexit.

I didn't say there was "uncontroversial evidence they'll govern the country in four years". You do like to exaggerate.🤣

However I do think if Labour don't stop this increase in illegal immigration that has happened under their watch and instead comprehensively get numbers down then n awful lot of people will look for alternatives.

Currently they are on course to win the next election

They're not.

There isn't an increase in illegal immigration. There's an increase in asylum seekers.

Brexit was a protest vote about immigration and we're screwed. It's was a huge mistake and now people are looking to do the same again.

Going back to the point of the thread, why do people like Reform - they offer simple solutions to complex problems.

Apparently if we stop small boats, everything will be solved, just as leaving the EU was going to solve everything. Small boats create a very convenient scapegoat for every societal ill.

For example, small boats are creating problems in the North. No decades of underinvestment and globalisation created problems in the North.

We shall see....

I have clients who work in housing dept and some working with folk coming out of prison.

Anyway if the council doesn’t have space for British people leaving prison in a hostel they get a tent and a sleeping bag. These can often be 18 year old women. One died just the winter passed.

The home office organises these asylum seekers accommodation since 2000 they get hotels. Not only that interpreter's at £80 an hour.

We can’t sustain mass immigration, these are fit men coming over they can fight for their country.

Also my woke neighbour had a Ukrainian family moved next door. Everyone where I live knows how to behave but nope they parked in the middle of the road so I couldn’t get my car out amongst a whole host of really annoying things (I would 100% have moved if was more than a year). Then a year later when it’s time to leave they all split up mum and dad and older kids, all got separate council properties. This didn’t stop them travelling back and forth to Ukraine every other month.

I’m not blaming refugees but they are prioritise more with housing as they’re seen as vulnerable. There’s been occasions I’ve heard of where a single parent who’s spent years in a hostel, they’re about to give a property to them and no a refugee got it. The people who work in these environments are either disconnectedly woke or furious about what’s happening.

This cannot go on.

Yes I’ve heard this sort of thing before and it is not right. The people here should be prioritised.

the interpreters is another racket, pay for it yourself if you need it, also are the interpreters trustworthy

Only if it's a genuine reduction in numbers and people on the ground can actually see an improvement. Not if it's just smoke and mirrors playing with statistics to try to fool people into thinking they're solving it. Actions speak louder than words (or fake statistics!).

I agree with the last few posts.

Some people seem to be adamant there is no negative impact and it’s all positive. Constantly asking for evidence of this that and the other, but the reality is, we won’t know exactly how much is spent on housing and immigration, but the £7million a day seems to be accurate and £100 million annually for the NHS in interpreters.

All fine and dandy if you’re living in middle class suburbs in your quaint village where there is no shortage of houses, assuming you can afford to buy… it’s quite a different story for those who are stuck in bedsits for years with their children, who are in minimum wage jobs and don’t have guarantors to help them get in the private rental - yes that’s right, rental!!!! That’s the shocking state of affairs we’re in now as a country, you often need a guarantor to even get a look in to rent because they have too many people interested so they can be picky.

Yes they should have built more houses and that’s been an issue for years and it wouldn’t be as bad as it is now if they had, so the blame lays with all the previous governments for the last 20 years I’d say and that’s not the fault of an any immigrants/asylum seekers. If everyone had access to to good housing, doctors, dentists and people could afford to live, no one would bat an eye lid and this issue wouldn’t exist really.

Sadly the situation right now is dire and folk are fucked off to the back teeth of all the government and their promise of this that and the other and that’s why folk are voting for Reform because they seem to have the balls to do what they say where others don’t. You can’t blame people for being pissed off seeking change

Sadly the situation right now is dire and folk are fucked off to the back teeth of all the government and their promise of this that and the other and that’s why folk are voting for Reform because they seem to have the balls to do what they say where others don’t. You can’t blame people for being pissed off seeking change

I agree.