Why do people like reform?

[TheGoogleMum]

I haven't been keeping very up to date with politics. I usually vote Labour. I don't really understand the popularity of reform, could anyone explain it to me?
As far as I'm aware Farage doesn't actually do anything when he wins a seat somewhere so I'm not convinced they'll actually do anything? Is it just a protest vote that's gone a bit far?

Not sure how you got to that. People here.love veering off to extremes. I have no problem if they live in the UK (rather than other countries) and are here legally. Of course how sustainable this is once the population exceeds 70 million and tax takings have decreased remains to be seen.

Throughout this thread the spending I have an issue with is thing like the pointless £11 billion on foreign climate aid (which will make no difference to the climate) and people arriving here illegally. I would also prefer current levels of taxation or a reduction in taxation as that would benefit my family.

As to the level of any reduction that will depend on the colour of the next government and the population levels/economy of course. But I wouldn't vote for a party that would want to increase taxation levels. Not many people would I suspect (unless having to pay tax is not an issue for them).

Well, I live in an area with a large migrant population, and my reality couldn't be any more different. No nice pastry shops, no grey bearded seniors playing chess in the market place. Endless hmos with rubbish piling up in the gardens, rows and rows of ' turkish' barbers shops, court list stuffed with Romanian burglars and drunk drivers, doctors surgeries crammed with non English speakers, and accompanied by Interpreters, weekly discoveries of weed factories, always tended by non natives. I'm glad your area is so metropolitan and pleasant. Mine isn't. It's fast turning into a third world shit hole.

We're returning to Reform's favourite and only subject. Let's take a closer look at that.

You don't want people fleeing to the UK and some of the reasons people flee are global warming and poverty.

It makes sense to me to help tackle those problems so that people don't flee. However you don't want to tackle those problems yet you want people to stop coming here.

How does that work?

How is pouring money (£11 billion) into foreign climate aid of benefit when China has got into a bit of a habit of building coal fired power stations. But we have stopped winter fuel payments for our own pensioners?

You're answering my question with more questions. We can't have a discussion if we just ask each other questions. How about you answer my question first and then I'll answer yours.

Sorry to hear you feel uncomfortable where you are. It’s not a nice position to be in.

I mean to be fair, we have a lot of barber shops at the top of our road (always full), mostly African ones. They don’t bother me.

I never look at court lists so no idea who’s done what.

Non-English speakers in the Drs don’t bother me at all. I taught pre-beginners English for a few years (as a volunteer) and one of the things we focused on was accessing services.

Weed factories, again, I don’t know how I would find out about this if it is happening, I don’t read a local newspaper so it would have to be literally on my street for me to notice. A local mechanics got raided by the police recently but don’t know what for or what came of it.

I’ve spent time in ‘developing’ countries (don’t think third world is a thing anymore) and wouldn’t describe any of them as shit holes. Although not sure Romania and Turkey would qualify as part of the developing world anyway?

I don’t know, are there other things there you haven’t mentioned? Does it just have a bad vibe?

The rubbish in the gardens would irk me to be fair.

I lived a few miles away a few years back in a different part of town (much younger, renting). It didn’t have many migrants but was massively deprived. People drunk and disheveled looking all the time. Neighbours wouldn’t look at you. Really bleak and depressing. Wouldn’t bring kids up there. Totally understand how the area you live in can affect your wellbeing.

Ok. If pouring billions of pounds of UK taxpayer money into jobs and infrastructure abroad(into just countries that cannot afford that themselves obviously) and sacrificing the winter fuel payments of our pensioners prevented global warming and therefore directly prevented illegal immigration into the UK thus saving us taxpayers money I would see the point of your argument.

But China. So your argument is not really a particularly strong argument as your approach has absolutely no chance of success and is bad for the UK.

I can rephrase my PP as a statement if you prefer and if you couldn't see the obvious point I was making simply because it was phrased as a question. But I'm sure I won't need to.

I don't really understand what you're talking about. I'll rephrase:

You want people to stop coming to the UK in small boats. If people are fleeing their countries because of issues such as global warming and poverty then surely it makes sense to help tackle those issues.

You don't agree with that, therefore I'm asking what your solutions are to stopping people fleeing their countries.

No. My point was that I don't want the UK to waste £11 billion on foreign climate aid when it will have no effect on climate due to China and therefore will not affect illegal immigration.

I like the fact that Reform is going to split the unionist vote in Scotland. It will give us a mandate for IndyRef2.

As I stated above, you don't believe in addressing poverty or climate change. Therefore what is your solution to people fleeing their countries because of those issues?

Not piss £11 billion down the drain. Other than that there's nothing we can do unless China changes its policies. Which it probably won't.

If this continues to be Labour's policy though I'm not surprised Reform are doing so well.

It would be great if you could answer the question. I understand that you don't believe in spending money on climate change and poverty.

Therefore what is your solution to people fleeing their countries because of those issues?

I've told you. There's no solution that the UK has in its remit unfortunately.

You don't have a solution and I don't believe Reform has a solution. More and more people will flee as they seek better lives.

There's not much we can do apart from protect our own borders. Unless China and India stop building coal fired power stations.

Incidentally I'm.not actually a Reform voter. Although you are persuading me otherwise.

Go for it! You're free to vote for whoever you want but at least take responsibility for your decision.

How can we 'protect our own borders'?

If the Labour approach is the same as yours (ie complete useless and detrimental to the British people) then it's clear people will be searching for alternatives.

Re protecting our own borders we probably need an off shore.processing centre to act as a deterrent.

I don't see you coming up with any feasible alternatives. It's extremely easy to criticise what other people are doing. It's much harder to come up with alternative solutions.

Shaking your fist at Dover will only get you so far. Anyway, back to the discussion. You talk about not focusing on climate change or poverty overseas and want to protect our borders.

How do you want to do that?

ETA you're talking about an off shore detention centre. That doesn't protect our borders it just moves people to a different country.

We have to pay for the detention centre which is very expensive. Where do you see the detention centre being built?

Why do you keep asking me for solutions? I don't think there are any. I've told you. And £11 billion is better spent here on our own poor and needy. Not spunked up the wall pretending it's going to solve World Poverty and Climate Change.

Just to look at your edit and additional points. We've got a spare £11billion to spend for a start, apparently.

The thread is about Reform and why people like them. We're therefore talking about Reform and their policies. Policies need to be realistic and costed. We're discussing how feasible those policies are.

As.we are discussing why people like Reform, I'd suggest one reason is that Labour are spending £11 billion on pointless foreign climate aid. Which means people are looking for an alternative that won't waste money quite so pointlessly.

But you keep asking me what my policies are?? Rather than Reform's.

The last time I heard ‘fully costed’ was from Labour pre GE. Turns out that was a lie.

I think the question of what a party would do with a certain amount of money is a fair one. Where Labour might do net zero with x billions another might do border control.

Which is where voters get to decide.