Why do people like reform?

[TheGoogleMum]

I haven't been keeping very up to date with politics. I usually vote Labour. I don't really understand the popularity of reform, could anyone explain it to me?
As far as I'm aware Farage doesn't actually do anything when he wins a seat somewhere so I'm not convinced they'll actually do anything? Is it just a protest vote that's gone a bit far?

@SallyWD

It’s been proven that taxing the wealthy is detrimental to the total tax receipts received by government. Even Tony Blair said increased taxes on the wealthy would drive them away.

And that housing, if social housing, will need to be paid for by people who pay tax.

Why? It’s capital investment which will pay for itself in the long term, it would be perfectly reasonable to pay for it with borrowing.

Do they? The tax burden is high already.

But you can't deny they also cause pressure on the local housing markets as the students (and staff to teach/manage them) need somewhere to live. You have to look at ALL aspects in balance, not just concentrate on the "good" bits and pretend there are no down-sides.

I suppose I'd also prefer my tax to go to support UK pensioners rather than £11billion on foreign climate aid which will make absolutely no difference to the climate

But most of your tax does go to pensioners?

On workers, yes, it's already high. On non workers, such as pensioners and those living from unearned income (interest, dividends, property rental, etc) it's actually very low, because NIC is only on wages, not on unearned income. Perhaps we need to level the playing field so that someone with an income of £50k from unearned income pays the same taxes as a worker!

Do they? The tax burden is high already.

I don't disagree although would argue it's too weighted on income vs wealth. We have an ageing population, that costs! You can't tackle that with lower taxes...

Dividend tax for example can be after profit is taxed anyway. First there’s CT then another tax.

If you want SMEs and start ups to have a hope of growing and employing people it’s better not to kill them off with even more taxes.

@taxguru agree

@EasternStandard we already have more over 65s than under 15s. There were 5 workers to 1 pensioner in the 60s, it's now 3:1 and not far off 2:1. How do we fund that and reduce taxes?

It's well known and the UK is seeing a "drain" of ultra rich leaving the country which will reduce UK tax revenue. The best way to spread tax rises (if necessary) is across the broadest/widest range of people, i.e. everyone. Hiking taxes on specific groups, whether workers, the rich, or whatever won't work because they're mobile and will just move abroad when "the pips squeak". Smaller broader tax rises are what's needed, on as many people as possible. Let's start with those who've benefitted for decades from lower overall taxes on unearned income such as pensions, interest, property rentals, etc.

Yes of course I don't deny that we have to accommodate tens of thousands of students. There's a lot of investment in housing here. Students accommodation seem to be concentrated in one area. There is new student accommodation being built and also new, affordable housing being built (everywhere around us!) for non-students. Housing is an issue but I feel that overall the University brings more positives than negatives to our city.

Smaller broader tax rises are what's needed, on as many people as possible

yep

Of course not everyone thinks like me. That would be weird. I respect everyone's opinion and would expect them to respect mine.

I do agree there has been underinvestment. It was very clear during covid that the shock to the UK would mean that life afterwards was going to be pretty rubbish for along while. It's not something that can be shaken off easily.

I think my problem is priorities and competence. The UK government's priorities should be the UK people (or at least they shouldn't prioritise non UK people to the detriment of the UK people). That's the duty of the government and I'm not sure Labour are fulfilling that duty eg £11billion to foreign climate aid that won't make a.difference to the climate versus the reduction of winter fuel payments.

Re competence, counterproductive measures are being put in place (IHT on farms and private business, VAT on schools etc) for idealogical reasons without preparing for the subsequent obvious fall-out. Labour gave a huge payout to wellpaid public sector workers to prevent strikes but the strikes continue. Mass rape of kids has been kicked into the long grass. The list is never ending.

So that's why people are looking for alternatives I'd suggest.

Obviously to increase taxes on the better off pensioners. Such as NIC on pensions, reduce/remove ISA tax free status, NIC on property rental incomes (or higher taxes on unearned income). Reduce pension tax free lump sums (although of course, won't affect those who've already benefitted). Maybe even means test state benefits such as state pension and disability benefits etc for the richest pensioners, say those with incomes over £100k.

Taxes will put more breaks on tax receipts, as Labour are finding out.

You’re pretty much at the limit for tax and borrowing. More and the impact is negative.

On what else can be done, we might not like having to step up for care for example.

Who’s on strike now @Jackrussellsaremad? I haven’t heard of any current public sector strikes. The pay increases were recommended by pay review bodies. Do you not want decent education and healthcare?

I want affordable healthcare that doesn't bankrupt the UK. Aren't we described as a healthcare system with country attached? Not ideal.

@EasternStandard other countries tax middle earners more, why don't they have a mass exodus?

On what else can be done, we might not like having to step up for care for example.

What does this mean?

You seem to want a unicorn. High quality public services and low taxes. That’s an impossible combination.

I want the services we can afford. There's no magic money tree.

I do agree there has been underinvestment. It was very clear during covid that the shock to the UK would mean that life afterwards was going to be pretty rubbish for along while. It's not something that can be shaken off easily.

We hadn't shaken off the financial crash or Brexit...

Covid was by far the biggest shock.

So you’d be happy with shit public services? Fortunately a sizeable proportion of the population disagrees with you.