Why do people like reform?

[TheGoogleMum]

I haven't been keeping very up to date with politics. I usually vote Labour. I don't really understand the popularity of reform, could anyone explain it to me?
As far as I'm aware Farage doesn't actually do anything when he wins a seat somewhere so I'm not convinced they'll actually do anything? Is it just a protest vote that's gone a bit far?

@Jackrussellsaremad why do you think reform will make things better for your family?

i'd benefit from abolishing IHT because my parents are in a (now) very expensive part of London but I don't believe we wouldn't pay for it in other ways.

We’re in the realms of lunacy when we start taxing benefits.

I wouldn’t be against them lowering the number of foreign students if it helped the housing crisis

@taxguru I agree with you, we should do that or similar. But too many people wont want to pay it & think they have earned enough. They haven't but can't or won't acknowledge that.

We’re in the realms of lunacy when we start taxing benefits.

That poster said including benefits tbf.

Some benefits are already taxable. Carer's Allowance is one. But I agree, taxing benefits such as UC would be crazy and will never happen, however keen people are to be spiteful.

Foreign students benefit the economy and have very little impact on housing demand. The only way the housing crisis will be solved is by building more houses, particularly social housing and rescinding right to buy.

Some people do grow out of being feckless, some people don’t.

I was chatting to a young bloke a couple of years ago. I worked for the council, he was doing community payback. He reckoned than in full time work he’d only be 40 quid a week better off because of rent and council tax. Who wants to knock themselves out for a quid an hour? Probably have to spend it on bus fares.

I think a lot of young people find themselves in a similar position. Not in employment, education or training. Work isn’t going to make you financially better off so you stagnate, Lots of boredom and thst can often lead to substance abuse. Universal credit give you “breathing room” if you have a diagnosed substance abuse problems.

Probably the solution to this lies in making people who are in work substantially better off than benefit claimants or instilling a mindset that work is necessary/ good/ fulfilling. No idea how either can be bc achieved.

I didn't say I thought Reform would make things better for my family.

I said paying less tax would be better for my family (obviously)

And I said that people vote according to what benefits them and their family rather than for the detriment of them and the benefit of strangers (I specified the boat people) if there was a choice to be made.

The party that benefits a person and their family will be specific to their own circumstances. For example Labour will benefit someone (surely) but are a bad fit for a lot of people currently.

"Very little impact on housing demand". Tell that to workers struggling to find a flat they can afford to rent in many University towns and cities where investors have bought up huge amounts of property to rent as student lets. My son got his first graduate job in one such city and some of his co-workers, also university graduates spent most of their first working year in hostels as they couldn't find anywhere to rent. It took my son six months to even get a viewing on an affordable flat, and he had to jump in and offer a year's rent upfront and a 10% uplift on the asking price to secure his flat! As soon as "suitable" properties come on to the market, they're snapped up almost immediately by investors for student lettings. That's an entirely foreseeable "unforeseen" consequence of university growth. It's pushing out locals and workers because the investors know that they can get more money out of students, especially foreign ones with rich parents who'll pay high rents.

I absolute agree with you there, but my reply was in response to the other poster who didn’t distinguish between foreign students on visas and general immigration. I said student digs are different to normal houses etc….

I also agree we need to build more houses

Several benefits are already taxable such as State Pension, bereavement allowance, carer's allowance, contribution based employment support allowance, jobseekers allowance.

@Jackrussellsaremad Oh I misunderstood I thought you were saying people vote for what benefits them and their circumstances & that you cared more for your own family I assumed as a Reform voter the above also applied...

I said paying less tax would be better for my family (obviously)

Is it though? We pay a lot of tax but I'm not convinced cutting services won't have an impact on me eg crime, reduced health services - I don't have private A&E cover for my family for one. My dc are in a state primary school.

The politically apathetic get the politicians they deserve?

I know a few people who didn’t vote during Brexit, there was a pub conversation not long after and confessions were made. They just never thought enough folk would vote to change the status quo so didn’t bother.

The population is set to exceed 70 million soon, mostly driven by immigration which will require more houses to be built on top of the need for the existing population that also require housing.

And that housing, if social housing, will need to be paid for by people who pay tax. Of which there are less now that the higher tax payers are leaving the UK (only Russia has a greater exodus).

So whatever your political persuasion and what you feel are the rights and wrongs of these facts, something has clearly got to change on the population numbers front if we ever want our kids to have a decent future here.

@skirtingcurtain

But stopping it is going to cost millions & millions & have other consequences

It’s already costing Billions, not millions, to house them In hotels. About 3 billion per year. Asylum budget is about 5 billion per year.

for my information, please list the other consequences

The only way the housing crisis will be solved is by building more houses, particularly social housing and rescinding right to buy

We need this big time bit again a lot have benefited from huge increases in housing so aren't so keen.

That isn’t strictly true, is it? They count towards the tax free personal allowance which isn’t the same thing as a universal tax outside the current income tax framework which is what you appear to be proposing. Please correct me if I’ve misunderstood.

Hmm.... I disagree. Not everyone thinks like you. It would benefit my family to vote for a low tax party such as Reform. DH is a high earner who pays 40% of his salary in taxes. We'd be rolling in it if he paid less tax!
However, I think this country needs huge investment. I saw what happened to the NHS and public services under the Tories. Everything was stripped back to the bone. We've all noticed the decline in this country in recent years. Everything looks shabby and doesn't work properly. Also I want wealth redistribution to an extent. I want the wealthy to pay more to improve the lives of those living in dire poverty.
Therefore, I'm happy for DH to pay even more in taxes to help those who need it more and to invest in public services. The country is a much nicer place to live when things work properly and towns look smart and clean. This benefits everyone. DH agrees.
Everyone hated how things declined under the Conservatives. It's why Labour were elected, as a reaction to this decline. It will be far worse under Reform. We'll see massive underinvestment and will live in a country where only the wealthiest have good lives.

@Jackrussellsaremad

And that housing, if social housing, will need to be paid for by people who pay tax. Of which there are less now that the higher tax payers are leaving the UK (only Russia has a greater exodus).

Good point, increasing taxes can result in lower tax receipts in total as people leave. I am one of them. I will retire to Bulgaria where taxes are 10 %

@GlobeTrotter2000 Well can you explain how the billions of pounds spent will be reduced or funded?

Consequences? I'm taking about the costs of patrolling to stop the boats, the building of these offshore detention sites & transportation, the staff required, etc. What about legal challenges to all of the above?

Why do you think there will be few consequences?

The services near me are absolutely rubbish. And I pay a large amount of tax. So it's currently not a clearly great deal for me and my family. I would prefer as much of my money as possible to stay in my pocket as it's not clear how paying such a large amount benefits anyone round here, let alone paying even more.

I suppose I'd also prefer my tax to go to support UK pensioners rather than £11billion on foreign climate aid which will make absolutely no difference to the climate

Agreed and without foreign students many universities would close down. I work at a university we've seen a big drop in foreign students. Our jobs and the university as a whole are at risk. We have some of the best universities in the world. We really don't want to lose them. They also employ tens of thousands of people from my community.

The population is set to exceed 70 million soon, mostly driven by immigration which will require more houses to be built on top of the need for the existing population that also require housing.

Mostly driven by? What's the other driver? We don't have enough suitable housing for the ageing population needs!

You've misunderstood. Any tax changes need to be included as part of the existing tax framework. It'd be insanity to set up entirely new systems alongside our existing already overcomplicated tax and benefit systems. Just bring the other benefits into tax, but at a special "benefit" rate of tax, in the same way that different kinds of existing taxable incomes have their own rates and allowances, such as interest, dividends, etc. In fact, bring NIC into the tax system properly too - under the same rules as income tax to simplify it, and have a "NIC" rate of income tax applied to certain (if not all) taxable incomes. Get it all in one place at last rather than different "tax" regimes for different kinds of income.