Why do people like reform?

[TheGoogleMum]

I haven't been keeping very up to date with politics. I usually vote Labour. I don't really understand the popularity of reform, could anyone explain it to me?
As far as I'm aware Farage doesn't actually do anything when he wins a seat somewhere so I'm not convinced they'll actually do anything? Is it just a protest vote that's gone a bit far?

We have to pay more tax.

We have to pay more tax.

nobody want to pay though.

I’m not in a privileged position to be able to spend my time constantly on this thread (unlike some people) to be able to read every single reply, regardless, I’ve seen your comments enough on here to see that you have little empathy for those that vote Reform.

Regarding the comment that ‘we’ don’t want to help asylum seekers and we should help the homeless instead, but ‘we’ don’t want to pay… Well if ‘we’ didn’t spend 7 million A DAY on hotels, perhaps there would be enough money to help the homeless here and making sure they have a home as a priority. Or should they not be a priority?

I mean taking it away from a pensioner living off of under £12 per annum. Just £1k a month. Many of these are over 80 years old. Bizarrely if they had less pension they'd get the PC top up then would be able to get the WFA, free council tax, free dentistry and these total benefits come to more than the ones who worked to get a basic full state pension. Could you live off of £12k per annum? I know I couldn't.

I’m not saying they are perfect by any stretch, my point is they are appealing to the masses because the other parties are ignoring the public concerns over immigration and the cost and the fact people feel they are being pushed to the back of the queue.

@RedWhite I understand that being informed before you comment isn't important to you.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy. Put the money from asylum seekers into helping the homeless but lower tax, don't invest and shrink the government. It doesn't make sense.

You said you've read my comments on the thread, therefore you already know if I think helping the vulnerable is a priority.

Because they won't be paying £52,925 just for accommodation of every illegal immigrant.

This sounds like Brexit mark 2. The EU was scapegoated for everything and people were told that 350m would be regularly pumped into the NHS and deprived areas would be levelled up.

Now "illegals" are being blamed for everything and people think that money spent supporting them will go towards public services.

Yet Farage is going to lower taxes and shrink the state.

Ok, I’ll hold my hands up and say I haven’t read all the comments as I don’t have time, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, because you seem to be inferring that I have your stance completely wrong…

Lower tax, don’t invest and shrink the government weren’t themes I seen with my original reply.

So who do you class as vulnerable, regarding needing somewhere to live? Who do you think should get priority?

You do realise the UK economy lost £450 billion due to COVID that no one saw coming do you? All money got ducked up and redirected to find COVID and then we still had to borrow lots more.

The vulnerable would include: people with disabilities, children, people struggling to survive, the elderly, the homeless and those seeking refuge.

The Tories brought in sweeping cuts when they came in which has led to many of the problems we are experiencing today. There's been very little investment for a long time.

Clearly you didn’t vote Brexit as is your right but don’t you think the fact the majority of the population did, and given we are a democratic country, the citizens deserved the governments to give it their best shot? Or are you quite happy that they fucked it up? Because you personally didn’t bite for it?

I suspect the latter…. Can you not see the issue and hypocrisy in that?

Yes and i absolutely agree with you in that respect and they are exactly who I would describe as vulnerable so I’m surprised you can’t you see why the average person is against mass unskilled immigration?

If there isn’t enough money to support the above, how the hell do they find £7,000,000 each day to pay for hotels? That’s the issue…

@RedWhite

I believe people were lied to and manipulated and, as has been proven, none of those promises came to pass. Brexit was always going to be an act of self harm and if you want to know why we're skint, look at how much money it not only cost to implement but how much we've lost since.

The same is happening again. I'll give you some examples. Farage want to create a new department for immigration - how much is that going to cost?

Farage talks about taking us out of the ECHR. How much is that going to cost and implement? What are the consequences going to be because he also wants to tear up the Human Rights Act.

He also wants to scrap the Equality Act as he doesn't like inclusivity. It's 'woke'. What are the consequences going to be? No one will be legally protected from discrimination. Farage has talked about getting rid off statutory rights.

Farage says he's going to take asylum seekers back to France but France has refused to take them back.

He says he's going to put people in detention centres. There are thousands of asylum seekers as there's a big backlog, where is the detention centre going to be and how much will it cost?

Farage is going to lower taxes so where is the money going to come from?

You're now talking about immigration. If we want to bring down immigration we need long term strategies to make up for the loss to the workforce. Universities will also have to take a big hit because many rely on foreign students.

The way to cut down on housing is to invest in processing claims quicker.

Immigration and loss of workforce are two separate issues. Low skilled mass immigration are not net contributors to the tex system. That’s not just true for immigrants but the population as a whole. You have to be earning significantly more than the minimum wage to be classed as a
net contributor to society.

Back in the day uni was free so what ls the change now? Why do they need to rely on significant student fees to keep afloat? Perhaps there are too many (useless) courses? Foreign students aren’t the issue as long as they return home after studies.

Why was housing not an issue years ago?

Why could you het a dentist no problem

Why could you get a GP appointment on the day?

Why were you waiting weeks/months not years for operations/specialist treatment!

Why were university fees non existent?

I don't understand what you mean. We have a huge amount of immigrants coming into the UK every year on work and student visas. They rent houses and use the NHS. You're talking about not being able to afford so much immigration and strain on infrastructure.

If we want to cut down on immigration, then we need long term strategies to make up for the loss of workers. For example, agricultural help, hospitality and carers as well as skilled workers such as medical staff in the NHS.

The government used to pay for university but stopped doing that. Therefore universities get money from charging fees and they charge foreign students considerably more. They're run as businesses.

ETA You've now edited your post.

Yes but student digs isn’t the same as mainstream renting. Student LL are a separate demographic to regular LL and cater for a different clientele. Young students here are unlikely to need the NHS in a significant way. I’m mod 40’s and rarely ever see the doctor.

Of course we need strategies, I don’t dispute that.

Why were the government able t find uni for years, but had to stop? Where has the money gone? There is certainly no evidence from what I can see..:

I'm not sure what you mean by 'student digs', students rent houses and flats. We have a housing crisis and here are the figures:

Sponsored Study Visas: 392,969 in the year ending September 2024.
Dependants: 46,961

Students are all ages and you've got no idea if they have health issues or not. Apparently we're 'full' but not to nearly 500,000 people. Bizarre.

It's immigration, stupid. All the traditional parties have totally fudged the issue. For decades. If they actually believe that the UK needs the present levels of immigration because of an ageing / shrinking workforce, they should come out and say it. But they won't. ( However valid that viewpoint might be). They know it is overwhelmingly and massively unpopular. Reform say they will ' stop the boats'. They have no plan, as far as I can see, to accomplish this. But are content to let their followers dream of ' sending in the Navy' and ' towing them back'.
Never, ever underestimate how truly, truly, fed up the mass of the British public are with mass immigration.

The only “reform” (small r) that I want to see is politics being reformed, and any party that even talked about the following might at first sway me: proper accountability for politicians, no second homes for MPs: hall of residence near parliament, and if they want a second home, they pay for it; politicians imprisoned when they break the law (which lots of them do), less generous expenses, nobody becomes an MP unless they’ve worked minimum wage in a customer-facing role at some point in their lives, they pay for their booze like everyone else; it can be tempting to go for a name like “Reform”. However, I know that any party who said these things would ignore it the moment they got in, especially Reform, and they’d be just as corrupt as all the others, just as Tony Blair ripped off his Labour mask the moment he was in, and cared about nobody but himself; and Farage didn’t get rich by fair play.

Brexit is also estimated to have cost the UK economy £140 billion (so far)

Could you live off of £12k per annum? I know I couldn't.

Without any housing costs at 80? I probably could although it wouldn't be much fun.

I get the argument for increasing the eligibility threshold but in my mind means testing as a concept isn't an attack....

my point is they are appealing to the masses because the other parties are ignoring the public concerns over immigration and the cost and the fact people feel they are being pushed to the back of the queue.

I definitely understand that what they selling is popular. I just think it's bullshit & am very surprised people haven't learned anything re the lies about all that money for the NHS from Brexit.

Put the money from asylum seekers into helping the homeless but lower tax, don't invest and shrink the government. It doesn't make sense.

Exactly

Because they won't be paying £52,925 just for accommodation of every illegal immigrant.

How much will it cost to stop them coming? to process them offshore? to deport them?

You do realise the UK economy lost £450 billion due to COVID that no one saw coming do you?

The UK economy has been fucked since 08 which we never recovered from. Instead the tories just inflated house prices.

There's been very little investment for a long time.

This, this is exactly why are in this state. Little investment by companies in up skilling staff, little investment by government in its people & services Low interest rates, austerity all discouraged investment & encouraged wage stagnation.

Now with the demographic changes we are in the shit but no one wants to acknowledge that.