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Politics

Is America under Trump having its own Cultural Revolution moment?

82 replies

logicisall · 07/03/2025 11:46

I found this article very thought provoking. As we try to understand what is happening in the world and the seismic shifts in foreign and economic policy under Trump, is this what is really happening? More importantly, what does it mean for the rest of the world if this is a permanent change?

New York Times

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logicisall · 10/03/2025 03:47

@MsAmerica and anyone else, do feel free to add to any link that doesn't work.

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GarlicStyle · 10/03/2025 03:50

Papyrophile · 08/03/2025 14:43

. Placemarking.

Me, too. apologies for my bad manners (and thanks for the posts: need to re-read when less tired!)

logicisall · 10/03/2025 08:38

I am genuinely trying to understand the points of view of people who support Trump for two reasons.

Firstly, a good friend, an intelligent, senior medical professional, is a supporter because she 'likes the chaos he's causing' so it's like watching a joke on woke liberals.

Secondly, a relative, whom I like very much, who revealed recently that she supports Trump because Ukraine is "wasting US$".

I found this Sky News report but it would be illminating to discuss with American MNers why they support Trump and what actions, if any, would be a deal breaker for them.

Rating Donald Trump's second term so far: He's rattling the cage and so many here in Pennsylvania couldn't be happier

In Pennsylvania - a key swing state that went for Donald Trump in the last election - voters tell Sky's Mark Stone the US president is 'doing real great'. For some though, there is real anxiety.

https://news.sky.com/story/rating-donald-trumps-second-term-so-far-hes-rattling-the-cage-and-so-many-here-in-pennsylvania-couldnt-be-happier-13324846

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StandFirm · 10/03/2025 09:24

Well, how long has it taken for public opinion to shift on Brexit (if it's ever really shifted)... We all know it's not been great but has there been a groundswell of buyer's remorse? No, and we're almost 10 years down the line. I think the US is being well and truly Trumped and the shift will be long-lasting. Even if it turns into a 'strongman' regime. I think those people who are happy with him will remain happy for a long time - or at least cling to their vision of MAGA for a long time.

StandFirm · 10/03/2025 09:31

And to add to the above: being a Trump follower is identity defining. That's the incredible feat that he's managed to pull off. It's intricately linked with faith and identity and I think once that's ingrained, it's too emotional to question. Much like I think being a Leaver became a proclamation of Englishness.

TooManyRabbitsAndNotEnoughChickens · 10/03/2025 11:17

What's the chance of the Democrats winning the next US Presidential election followed by a peaceful transition to a Democrat president?

I think that, even if they have majority support, it won't be allowed to happen. Trump is already putting the building blocks in place to 'steal' the next election:

Disrupting and weakening the federal state.

Sidelining Congress.

Capturing social media and eroding trust in MSM

Creating the narrative that previous elections have been stolen, giving him the opportunity to step in and 'fix' these issues.

BigTubOfLard · 10/03/2025 17:50

Borrowed the quote below from a political blog I read last week which delves into how America became the world's police force and why Trump is opting the US out of this role.

While it’s often easy to dismiss Trump as a loudmouth businessman who somehow made his way into the Oval Office, the reality is far more complex. His rhetoric was the megaphone for a widespread and largely ignored sentiment in America. That sentiment being - ‘Why are we paying for this?’

https://ghaffar.substack.com/p/trump-and-the-end-of-the-post-wwii?utm_medium=ios

Trump and the End of the Post-WWII Political Order

There is a moment in the history of any empire when it begins to ask the eternal question ‘Why are we doing this?’.

https://ghaffar.substack.com/p/trump-and-the-end-of-the-post-wwii

RevolutionaryMode · 10/03/2025 21:14

logicisall · 10/03/2025 08:38

I am genuinely trying to understand the points of view of people who support Trump for two reasons.

Firstly, a good friend, an intelligent, senior medical professional, is a supporter because she 'likes the chaos he's causing' so it's like watching a joke on woke liberals.

Secondly, a relative, whom I like very much, who revealed recently that she supports Trump because Ukraine is "wasting US$".

I found this Sky News report but it would be illminating to discuss with American MNers why they support Trump and what actions, if any, would be a deal breaker for them.

@logicisall The New York Times has done a piece on the Right and Trump Derangement Syndroome. Hopefully this link will work. And you can listen and/or read.

Basically it’s about people knowing what Trump is like from his first term and then magically believing that he’s changed in some way, or it’s some kind of collective amnesia. Also gaslighting the voters (my words) and then they support him anyway. The Right and Trump Derangement Syndrome

RevolutionaryMode · 10/03/2025 21:34

@logicisall I also think we are seeing a resurgence of racism and sexism, especially misogyny. It’s as though people feel like they were somehow forced to act decently - and in Trump they seek, and are granted, the permission to say whatever they want no matter who it hurts. Backed up by Musk, who has turned Twitter into a cesspit and is leading the charge.

Plus, single issue voters - my impression (from another country) was that single issue voters were fairly common.

My sister is a very intelligent woman (smarter than me) and she would have voted for RFKjnr if he’d been nominated to run. The covid pandemic and ‘rights’ regarding lockdowns and vaccines etc sort of radicalized her. She would have been a ‘single issue voter’ if she could have voted.

CassiasC · 10/03/2025 21:39

Firstly, a good friend, an intelligent, senior medical professional, is a supporter because she 'likes the chaos he's causing' so it's like watching a joke on woke liberals.

When I read things like this I wonder if having had it easy in the west in recent decades compared to most times and places through history has made some of us dangerously complacent to the point of being jaded. Like a bit of war, disaster and societal meltdown sounds like fun to some people. Like they don’t believe anything bad will really happen, but some drama will be entertaining. Or maybe they think they can choose the bits they like.

There was a similar thing with Brexit and people burbling on about the blitz spirit. Funnily enough, the economic downturn that has happened since has not brought people together.

Interesting, if utterly frustrating, phenomenon.

logicisall · 10/03/2025 21:40

Thanks@RevolutionaryMode but I couldn't see beyond the headline. Could you copy and paste the url into archive.ph.

I don't know if you've come across this website before, but by archiving the page, it allows anyone to see the article (even if it is behind a paywall) when they search.

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RevolutionaryMode · 10/03/2025 21:41

CassiasC · 10/03/2025 21:39

Firstly, a good friend, an intelligent, senior medical professional, is a supporter because she 'likes the chaos he's causing' so it's like watching a joke on woke liberals.

When I read things like this I wonder if having had it easy in the west in recent decades compared to most times and places through history has made some of us dangerously complacent to the point of being jaded. Like a bit of war, disaster and societal meltdown sounds like fun to some people. Like they don’t believe anything bad will really happen, but some drama will be entertaining. Or maybe they think they can choose the bits they like.

There was a similar thing with Brexit and people burbling on about the blitz spirit. Funnily enough, the economic downturn that has happened since has not brought people together.

Interesting, if utterly frustrating, phenomenon.

I suspect you are right. There are people who seem to want to ‘blow it all up’ but somehow they think they are going to avoid the fallout.

RevolutionaryMode · 10/03/2025 21:53

logicisall · 10/03/2025 21:40

Thanks@RevolutionaryMode but I couldn't see beyond the headline. Could you copy and paste the url into archive.ph.

I don't know if you've come across this website before, but by archiving the page, it allows anyone to see the article (even if it is behind a paywall) when they search.

Sorry @logicisall i know about the archive site but it never works for me. I just tried again. I’m doing something wrong for sure (not very internet savvy at all) as I get taken to the article in my NY Times app. Not helpful to you, I know.

Hopefully some else can do it?

logicisall · 10/03/2025 22:12

I was speaking to a relative in another country recently and she said that she avoids talking about Trump/US Politics completely now, because you can't tell who his supporters are anymore as they cut across all strata of society. The unexpected ones will probably be the 'single issue' voters that @RevolutionaryMode mentioned in a pp.
I agree that in the West, our collective memory of WW2 has faded. We have developed compassion fatigue after watching/reading news about the suffering of people due to war/famine that are far from our shores.
Or maybe people have become selfish and so bought into Trump's promises of MAGA = money in your pocket + better life + showing the world who is boss.

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logicisall · 10/03/2025 22:16

@RevolutionaryMode , it looks like it was archived 2 days ago, so I was able to open it. Thanks!

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logicisall · 10/03/2025 22:25

The article for those who wish to read it.
I found it another piece of the puzzle in understanding Trump's government style.

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RevolutionaryMode · 10/03/2025 22:47

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.md/2025.03.08-012755/www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/opinion/republicans-trump-derangement-syndrome.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.md/2025.03.08-012755/www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/opinion/republicans-trump-derangement-syndrome.html

I’m posting this here anyway @logicisall because, fingers crossed I may finally have worked out how to do it. (Or not).

RevolutionaryMode · 10/03/2025 22:48

Damn. Nope didn’t work.

TankFlyBossW4lk · 11/03/2025 02:22

logicisall · 08/03/2025 18:32

I think that one has to wonder if the checks and balances that exist are robust enough to contain Trump's dictatorial tendencies.

The hire/fire scenario playing out regarding air traffic controllers is a case in point. Chaotic about turns. I'm waiting to see how the Supreme Court rules on some of those Executive Orders.

The supreme court is absolutely in DTs pocket. Clarence Thomas, Brett Kavanagh, these controversial appointments have been years in the making. To be honest, I don't think DT is that smart but he's been advised by Putin for years. Evil though he absolutely is, Putin is smart and has helped DT play the very long game.

I'll be amazed if DT doesn't attempt a 3rd etc term. Unless he dies. JD Vance will be no better even if he does die though.

MsAmerica · 15/03/2025 23:28

logicisall · 10/03/2025 03:47

@MsAmerica and anyone else, do feel free to add to any link that doesn't work.

Since you were so nice, I tracked this down:

Many Chinese See a Cultural Revolution in America
People in China are expressing alarm at what looks like a familiar authoritarian turn in the United States, their longtime role model for democracy.
New York Times
By Li Yuan

As the United States grapples with the upheaval unleashed by the Trump administration, many Chinese people are finding they can relate to what many Americans are going through...

“Coming from an authoritarian state, we know that dictatorship is not just a system — it is, at its core, the pursuit of power,” Wang Jian, a journalist, wrote in an X post criticizing Mr. Trump. “We also know that the Cultural Revolution was about dismantling institutions to expand control.”

For these Chinese, who strive for democratic values but contend with an authoritarian state, their role model is tearing itself down. They are expressing their alarm in interviews, articles and social media comments that range in emotion from disappointment and anger to sardonic...

They’re witnessing things they thought could happen only in China: sycophantic official announcements, intimidation of the media and top entrepreneurs vying for favor from the leadership, not to mention a president who calls himself a king.

www.nytimes.com/2025/03/06/business/china-donald-trump-cultural-revolution.html

CranfordScones · 15/03/2025 23:56

Or was the cultural revolution started by the Democrats? They were hijacked by their own far-left which obsessed over gender ideology, identity politics and illiberal compelled speech. All of that 'campus life' leakage in to the lives of ordinary people failed to reflect the concerns of mainstream America.

Trump deceived people over his intentions. But the electorate chose what appeared to be the better of two poor options.

slippersandfleece · 16/03/2025 00:02

LovingHare · 07/03/2025 18:11

Donald Trump's foreign and economic policies have indeed caused significant shifts, often described as "seismic." His "America First" doctrine has reshaped U.S. relations with allies and adversaries alike, emphasizing unilateralism, economic protectionism, and a transactional approach to diplomacy.

For example, his administration's recent pivot toward Russia, including suspending military aid to Ukraine and engaging in direct negotiations with Moscow, has raised concerns about the future of NATO and U.S. commitments to European security. Similarly, his aggressive tariff policies have sparked fears of a global trade war, with potential long-term consequences for international markets and supply chains.

If these changes were to become permanent, they could signal a shift away from the post-World War II liberal order, where the U.S. played a central role in maintaining global stability.

This could lead to a more fragmented world, with regional powers like China and Russia filling the vacuum left by a less engaged U.S.. At the same time, it might push traditional allies to strengthen their own defense and economic strategies, as seen in Europe’s recent moves to boost military spending.

AI generated for sure.

TooBigForMyBoots · 16/03/2025 00:19

CranfordScones · 15/03/2025 23:56

Or was the cultural revolution started by the Democrats? They were hijacked by their own far-left which obsessed over gender ideology, identity politics and illiberal compelled speech. All of that 'campus life' leakage in to the lives of ordinary people failed to reflect the concerns of mainstream America.

Trump deceived people over his intentions. But the electorate chose what appeared to be the better of two poor options.

Trump deceived people over his intentions. But the electorate chose what appeared to be the better of two poor options.

Now they're discovering how wrong they were to choose Trump.

They were hijacked by their own far-left which obsessed over gender ideology, identity politics and illiberal compelled speech.

They were hijacked by the far right who obsessed over gender ideology, identity politics and a cultivated sense of victimhood combined with nostalgia to benefit Trump, Putin and Musk.

The result is a POTUS who's destroying America, it's people and its Constitution.

ElizaMulvil · 16/03/2025 09:12

CranfordScones · 15/03/2025 23:56

Or was the cultural revolution started by the Democrats? They were hijacked by their own far-left which obsessed over gender ideology, identity politics and illiberal compelled speech. All of that 'campus life' leakage in to the lives of ordinary people failed to reflect the concerns of mainstream America.

Trump deceived people over his intentions. But the electorate chose what appeared to be the better of two poor options.

The 'far-left' has never been obsessed by gender ideology viz this piece in the Morning Star.

Trade union membership grew in 2023 by 89,000 but 83,000 women left the same year.
This is on top of 129,000 women (mainly private sector) leaving the unions in 2022. The exodus of women in a period when trade unions are growing must be openly discussed, if trade unions are to be at the forefront of building power and influence and advancing the interests of the working class.
Women are 52 per cent of the population, so this exodus of women from the trade unions, the largest democratic organisations of the working class, leaves a question mark over whether women believe unions are relevant to them.
Are trade unions effectively tackling the systemic misogyny within our structures, in the workplace and in wider society? Government figures would suggest that unions are failing women. We need to fix this as a matter of urgency.

The Tories try to position themselves as the champions of women’s rights but their brutal cuts and privatisation agenda has itself represented the biggest attack on women in our day-to-day lives.
In this period of reaction, women’s sex-based rights are under the most ferocious attack, alongside cuts to jobs, terms, conditions and public services. It is women who suffer most under a political agenda that advances cuts and privatisation and that puts profits before people.

Women occupy the lowest-paid job roles in the economy and tend to work part-time to care for children so as a result they are more reliant on an ever-shrinking welfare state. Zero-hours contracts, wage theft and extremely low pay is the lived experience of too many working-class women. Many are forced to work extra hours to make ends meet or end up with zero pay in order to meet the crippling costs of child care. Affordable social housing is no longer an option either, so mothers in particular end up trapped, disadvantaged and unable to escape a cycle of poverty or economic dependence on unsuitable men.

Rape convictions are at an all-time low and life-saving domestic abuse services are being shut or privatised out of existence as women and girls face rising levels of violence. The hollowing out of public-sector provision is further undermining the fundamental rights of women to assert our boundaries, to speak up, to demand safety from sexual and physical violence and to protect our children.

The political and economic attacks on women and the deliberate silencing of women goes hand in hand with attacks on the right to protest and the new raft of anti-trade union legislation that has been introduced. They want women and men to be utterly demoralised and disempowered, to stay in our place, shut up, and to give up organising ourselves in unions to fight against cuts and privatisation. After all, it can only be of benefit to the capitalist class if half the working class leave the trade unions in droves, are driven out or mistrust unions to the point that they don’t even want to get involved in the first place.

The global attack on women’s rights is being framed as “culture wars” by those who are unable to recognise that the deep divisions being sown between working-class men and women undermines class struggle.
It has always been understood across the trade unions and the left that equality for women is inextricably linked to class struggle but that level of understanding is being broken down by gibberish produced by the likes of Judith Butler and other modern-day sophists.

The shallow analysis of identity politics is not sufficient to enable the working class to identify the true source of our oppression, arm us with the knowledge or the methods to mount an effective and united political and industrial struggle.
The fight for equality must be real and meaningful and the demands of women clearly defined within the political and industrial equality agenda.
Sexual harassment and rape are women’s issues. Domestic violence predominantly affects women and has an impact that lasts through generations. Hard work, grinding poverty and insecure contracts are the lot of too many women, who are increasingly the main breadwinners for the family.

The sex industry readily opens its doors to impoverished women who then end up being further exploited. That prostitution is now reframed as “liberating” and as “a legitimate form of work” tells us everything we need to know about the levels of misogyny that is deeply embedded in our movement.

Women need decent publicly owned and provided services, a welfare state that provides a genuine safety net and well-paid, unionised jobs, We also need to see progress in the laws around rape, flexible working and other issues that predominantly affect women. Women with children require unions to make more effort to lower the barriers to enable them to be fully involved.
These are the very basics of a core understanding of women and the particular issues we face and women’s demands must be put at the very core of the class struggle so that we can all succeed together.
Helen O’Connor is a GMB organiser writing in a personal capacity.

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 11:04

CranfordScones · 15/03/2025 23:56

Or was the cultural revolution started by the Democrats? They were hijacked by their own far-left which obsessed over gender ideology, identity politics and illiberal compelled speech. All of that 'campus life' leakage in to the lives of ordinary people failed to reflect the concerns of mainstream America.

Trump deceived people over his intentions. But the electorate chose what appeared to be the better of two poor options.

Looking at what this regime is doing to universities and access to knowledge in general, you cannot possibly continue to blame the completely over-publicised ramblings of a few undergrads who went a bit radical! Trump and his cronies are systematically wrecking scientific research, calling academics enemies of the people, defunding top universities to an unprecedented level. They are literally disappearing students FFS! For protesting! In a country that enshrined the right to protest in its constitution - that same constitution that the President has to swear allegiance to. And that's just weeks after European liberal democracies were humiliated by the US VP (on their own continent!) in a vile speech claiming that 'free speech' was at risk in the UK, Germany and elsewhere in Europe whilst not saying a word about the true authoritarian regimes encroaching on the 'free world'. The sheer hypocrisy is breath-taking! Only Nazi and Klan sympathisers seem to have the right to express themselves nowadays. It's nothing short of disgusting. I love American culture (which is so much more than the 'Jesus loves guns' posters and bumper stickers of some MAGA types) and it is being choked to death by people who want to destroy it forever for their own pathetic gains. Judases all of them.

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