‘Bots’ - what are they, in simple terms.

[Harliea]

‘Russian Bots’, ‘Right Wing Bots’ I see it on here where threads are taken over and the initial discussion changes.

I may be completely stupid, though I understand media bias, popular opinion, the impact of money ‘buying/changing views etc.

But I don't actually know what a ‘bot’ is.

Human?
AI?
Volunteers for a cause?
Paid to share a bought opinion?

I sense a threat to democracy?

I think sometimes the word is used to describe an actual person who comes on here just to push a specific political point.

Both human and AI told used to spread propaganda and misinformation. Russia has multiple call centre type operations full of them.

‘Bots’ is the wrong word for what seems to be happening on MN. ‘Astroturfing’ would be more accurate. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

Exactly this.

Article about a St Petersburg troll factory from back in 2015:

The Russian troll factory at the heart of the meddling allegations
Former workers tell how hundreds of bloggers are paid to flood forums and social networks at home and abroad with anti-western and pro-Kremlin comments
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house

Liz Truss and Nadine Dorries (both then in government) on troll factories in 2022:

‘Troll factory’ spreading Russian pro-war lies online, says UK
St Petersburg outfit hijacks discussions on Twitter, TikTok, world leaders’ social accounts and media websites, as well as manipulating opinion polls
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/01/troll-factory-spreading-russian-pro-war-lies-online-says-uk
[...]Researchers say the group seems to have learned from the tactics used by QAnon conspiracy theorists and from the Islamic State terror group.

Good article in Sep 2024 by Peter Pomerantsev, about the application of this hybrid information warfare + kinetic warfare:

In tackling Vladimir Putin’s web of troll farms and hackers, we have one advantage: democracy
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/29/in-tackling-vladimir-putins-web-of-troll-farms-and-hackers-we-have-one-advantage-democracy
[...]The audiences that Russian covert operations were targeting are still susceptible to the Kremlin’s messages. Tenet Media, the Maga-media company where the Russians were secretly paying popular YouTubers $100,000 per video to smear Ukraine, reached 16 million views. Their hosts claim they had no idea who was paying them – and their audiences don’t appear to care. Russia operations exploit audiences across the world, playing into historically resonant anti-western, anti-colonial sentiment in Africa and acting as what Lammy has called a “ringleader for a new fascism” that promotes racism in Europe. In Moldova it is spending $100m to subvert this year’s elections and referendum on EU entry, planting dummy candidates to confuse voters and spreading fears that joining the EU will lead to war. All these narratives – from right to left to playing on fear – work.

Bots can be a set of social media accounts that are programmed to push a particular viewpoint.

So as I real person, I have one social media account and type out my own opinions slowly.

But bot-guy has 500 social accounts set up to look like 500 different people. He posts the same or v similar to all and also has them all retweet his preferred opinions. So now it looks like his opinion is v popular and more people see it on and are more inclined to agree.

Thank you.
Serious & organised.

Are people paid to do this? ( don't worry, I’m not tempted…😉) @haufbiskiy

A danger to democracy as ‘we’ are being swayed in ‘our’ views.

It's only as dangerous as the MSM I guess.

Sometimes it's people paid to do it, sometimes it's just AI generated comments.

Lots of AI on twitter, for example, where you just broadcast an opinion. It's a bit more obvious on forums like MN where you are expected to interact with other posters.

So now it looks like his opinion is v popular and more people see it on and are more inclined to agree.

Yes exactly this. My area used to be a favourite patch for door-to-door salesmen for some reason. It was really noticeable that part of their patter was, "I've just spoken to your neighbours, and they all wanted to buy."

(Quite funny too, when I'd heard them working their way along the street getting no answers, because the neighbours were all out at work.)

"Everyone else is doing this – especially your friends and family and neighbours," is a very well-known sales technique.

Oh I think it might be a little more dangerous, although the media do obviously have a huge influence.

The purpose of astroturfing is that it's not transparent. It conceals who the message is coming from, and leverages our natural instincts to be sociable and to be influenced by our "friends".

A poster called @MMBaranova posted a good summary of different types of political bots or trolls in 2022. She has Ukrainian and Russian family, so all too much experience of being on the receiving end of their output.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4647179-ukraine-invasion-part-32?page=31

Her post was specifically about Russian bots/trolls after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but we see similar patterns in astroturfing by other bodies. I hope @MMBaranova doesn't mind if I C&P her words here:

There are various categories.

One. Paid state agents. They sit in a building in St P or Yoshkar-Ola (or now perhaps WFH) and pump out the line. Y-O is scam central in Russia in the Mari El Republic.

Two. Patriotic Putinist Nationalists. They have bought into the dream and further their side, unpaid. Useful amplification for category one, often with variations in the text.

Three. Fellow Travellers and Useful Idiots. This category subdivides. Broadly there are two elements. One is the Pro element. They were / would have been pro-Soviet Union for ideological reasons and now sans ideology find that they are actually pro-Russian. Second, we have the Anti element. They are anti-Western in some way, whether it be anti-capitalist, environmentalist, anti-party in power or whatever. Their cause may well be laudable, but they cross the line into pro-Putinism because he's against what they are against. Or it seems that way. There are shades in-between the pros and the antis.

Four. Players and dabblers. They are just messing around, being contrary, which online forums allow you to do, until banned.

Good example of fully automated accounts, which are what gave rise to the term (ro)bots.

The bot accounts were used on Twitter, in tandem with posts by real people, to attack the French elections in 2027.

Macron Leaks: the anatomy of a hack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-39845105
"A bot is a Twitter profile which does not have a single human operator behind it," Nimmo tells BBC Trending, "For its profile picture it will have an image of someone else or a random picture like a mountain or a bird. it will be run by a computer programme, by an algorithm, which will essentially retweet everything from listed accounts or to retweet any tweets that mention certain words. So it is fully automated."

Scary stuff that it isn't even a human controlling the narrative on top of monied people also controlling what they want to happen.

It make me really fearful that as a ‘ordinary’ citizen we are having less and less say over any direction of travel in our country either by the spreading of misinformation which some believe or by the power of money and control by certain individuals.

Bot hunting or Astroturfing hunting is against MN rules. It’s mainly used by a core group of left leaning posters who cannot believe anyone thinks this government are as equally bad as the last. They just have no counter argument, hence the incorrect term bot. It’s the only answer

The MSM can be called out and challenged in this country.

Sure, every other social media platform in the world has to deal with actual bots, but MN just has fake accusations.

Funny. Was thinking about bot types. I think what I posted back then more or less stands.

Rather like military drone operators once being solely concentrated in a bunker away from the front and now often closer with a smaller drone to control, the line-posting bots types are more distributed than they used to be. WFH and all that.

Definitely a threat to Democracy. You just need to look at the US to see that.

There are bots and shills on here no doubt. But they represent all points of view.

Big, dramatic, emotive thread titles, often in capitals, designed to suck people in are often red flags. 'I DON'T WANT ALL OF US TO BE FORCED TO FIGHT ON THE FRONT LINE FOR UKRAINE' as opposed to 'How do the think the consequences of that White House meeting will play out?'. Posted by people but coordinated in some way.

It often isn't though. And even if it is, it's generally too late as the lies will be believed.

You know the phrase, a lie can be half way round the world before the truth has its running shoes on.

Oh god.

French elections in 2027 2017

Before I get accused of time-travelling...

There is no doubt bots and shills are a thing. However truly understanding what they are is as poorly understood on here as AI. The issue is on here, there is a coordination from a core group of posters who tried to shut down any opinion which isn’t pro Labour by screaming bot. If you want to see ‘coordinated attacks.’ Go onto chat and look at any Starmer thread. Plenty of ‘bot hunting’ not pro Starmer hunting there.

It’s boring and tedious and was turning MN into an echo chamber of the same posters patting each other on the back. The bot hunting is pure and simply a case of people not being able to fathom that people can be: right, centrist, left and not pro Starmer/Labour or dislike ALL governments and their actions of recent times. People are so tribal they can’t cope with anything more simple than Labour or Far Right bot.

Most will be on here defending it.