Musk buoys up Nazis

[MsAmerica]

Musk Says Germany Has ‘Too Much of a Focus on Past Guilt’
His comments to the hard-right Alternative for Germany party escalated efforts by the billionaire to influence the country’s election for chancellor next month.
“It’s good to be proud of German culture, German values, and not to lose that in some sort of multiculturalism that dilutes everything,” Elon Musk told a gathering of the hard-right Alternative for Germany party on Saturday.
By Jim Tankersley and Christopher F. Schuetze

Mr. Musk himself recently stirred controversy in Germany and elsewhere by giving what was widely interpreted as a Nazi salute to a rally of supporters after Mr. Trump’s inauguration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/27/world/europe/musk-germany-afd-auschwitz.html

Elon Musk faces criticism for encouraging Germans to move beyond 'past guilt'
By Rachel Treisman

Musk, the world's richest man, has waded into politics in other European countries, throwing his support behind far-right leaders such as Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni and trolling Britain's center-left government.

www.npr.org/2025/01/27/nx-s1-5276084/elon-musk-german-far-right-afd-holocaust

The people I know are sad and shocked how an advanced society could gradually descend to allow this kind of barbarism again.

What do you mean?

I don't know a single German born after WWII that feels guilty about what happened

Have you ever asked them whether they are proud to be German? Ask them, and watch their reaction.

I've done that previously (quite a while ago, when Merkel was still Chancellor, well before any recent political changes) I could actually see the person physically recoil. They explained that expressing pride for Germany was completely culturally unacceptable.

Even though I knew they were proud of Germany, in the perfectly natural, non-nationalistic way most people are (of pretty much any country). They knew their country's unique strengths as one of the economic and political leaders of the EU. They felt lucky to be citizens of a strong, liberal democracy.

But saying it was completely taboo. I don't think that's healthy.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Are you saying that genocide isn't a crime?

It’s not about ‘guilt’ although some like to
put it that way.

It is about remembering history and recognising the ways in which what went before now impacts the society we live in today. And recognising the ways in which descendants of those past generations who experienced genocide might still be affected by it.

No one is asking anyone of later generations of Germans, British, Americans, Australians etc to feel guilty. But it’s often couched in those terms by people who somehow feel like they are the victims of what their ancestors perpetuated.

Because one country does not remember it’s history does not make it okay for another country to do likewise. That’s aiming for the lowest bar.

As for Musk, I read that his grandparents were nazi party members in Canada who, after WW2, moved to apartheid South Africa. In 1992, with apartheid in the process of coming to an end in South Africa, Musk moves to the US.

I obviously mean the current rise of fascism. See, I find Nazi salutes and Musk trying to influence elections in multiple countries unhealthy 🤷🏻‍♀️. Have you ever been to Berlin, they honour their difficult past beautifully. The sunken library and the Neue Wache are poignant and moving - this exists alongside a buzzing foreword looking community. It’s possible to both acknowledge and recognise a historical past that you don’t want to go back to whilst simultaneously be happy and thriving. It’s not about guilt as Elon is trying to frame it, it’s about honour.

I think the Left turning parts of London into a no-go zone for British Jews every Saturday is far closer to what we actually want to avoid repeating than:

... the press getting hysterical about a gesture which a billionaire may or may not have intended.

...Or even a fairly unpleasant party getting 20% of the vote... but all the other parties continuing to refuse to enter a coalition with them.

"History doesn't repeat itself but sometimes it rhymes."

But you're looking at the surface similarities which resonate with your own political preferences - and getting caught up in Left-wing drama and hyperbole - whilst ignoring the genuine similarity: rising anti-semitism.

You're ignoring harm from the Left because you assume that only flowers and unicorns come from the Left. But history shows that is far from the truth.

It was a Nazi salute, done twice. We are discussing Elon but nicely done with the whataboutery. Don’t try to tell me what I think about anything, although tbf it does seem to align with the fascist playbook. How ironic that you are raising the issue of antisemitism. Off you goose step.

Where have “The Left” turned into “no-go zones” for Jewish people in London?

And this statement is hilarious when you then go on to mock people taking issue with Musk doing a Nazi salute. (Something which far right groups in the USA seem to seem as a Nazi salute

https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hate-watch/elon-musks-inaugural-roman-salute-sparks-outrage-far-right-praise/)

The same Mask who has retweeted anti-semitic tweets.

Saying anti-semitism is an issue while defending Musk is quite a choice. As is criticising people for not wishing to work with Far Right parties.

Your alleged concern is fairly hollow. You just find this a convenient stick to beat “The Left” with (as if being Jewish and left-wing and mutually exclusive.)

Musk is a dick, but the world isn't ending whether he meant it as a nazi salute or not.

I'm not criticising parties not working with AfD. I'm pointing out that Germany is a long way from being fascist.

The anti-Israel marches are uncomfortable for any Jews who don't want to publicly renounce Israel (and why should they? They are entitled to their own political opinion. And entitled to walk anywhere in their city, regardless of ethnicity/religion and regardless of political views). One Jewish activist who was drawing attention to this problem was actually told by police to move away. He was the one causing trouble, you see, by being 'visibly Jewish'.

I consider the Left to be significantly more problematic than the Right, yes.

And so bloody self-righteous that they are incapable of even thinking about their own despotic tendancies.

You can't yet put me in the gulag for wrong-think. So I'll happily point out your hypocrisy.