Musk buoys up Nazis

[MsAmerica]

Musk Says Germany Has ‘Too Much of a Focus on Past Guilt’
His comments to the hard-right Alternative for Germany party escalated efforts by the billionaire to influence the country’s election for chancellor next month.
“It’s good to be proud of German culture, German values, and not to lose that in some sort of multiculturalism that dilutes everything,” Elon Musk told a gathering of the hard-right Alternative for Germany party on Saturday.
By Jim Tankersley and Christopher F. Schuetze

Mr. Musk himself recently stirred controversy in Germany and elsewhere by giving what was widely interpreted as a Nazi salute to a rally of supporters after Mr. Trump’s inauguration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/27/world/europe/musk-germany-afd-auschwitz.html

Elon Musk faces criticism for encouraging Germans to move beyond 'past guilt'
By Rachel Treisman

Musk, the world's richest man, has waded into politics in other European countries, throwing his support behind far-right leaders such as Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni and trolling Britain's center-left government.

www.npr.org/2025/01/27/nx-s1-5276084/elon-musk-german-far-right-afd-holocaust

Terrifying.

And Trump is his puppet. He can't be President of the US, because he was born in SA, so he's doing the next best thing.

The influence and power musk has with or over Trump is frightening.

I think they're both using each other - in the most venal, contemptible way.

Musk recently said, ‘I love Donald Trump as mush as a straight man can love another man.’

Eek! Excuse the typo. I hope everyone realized I meant:
‘I love Donald Trump as much as a straight man can love another man.’
Nothing "mushy."
Still, there's some clever joke in their somewhere, a pun with Musk-much-mush.

I’m wondering what other awful shit Musk is drawing attention away from. God help America.

But let's look at Musk's actual words:

Germany Has ‘Too Much of a Focus on Past Guilt"

So I guess the question is whether 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation Germane should still be feeling guilt over the actions of Germany in WW2 some 75 to 80 years ago or not.

If so then they would be unique in this respect with Japan, Russia, other allies and various partisan groups across Europe not accepting any guilt or regret for the war crimes committed by their nationals.

It’s a sentiment that I hear from Reform types in the UK too with regards to slavery and empire. Do Americans carry guilt over Hiroshima, the Cold War eg Vietnam and meddling in other countries’ politics eg the Middle East? If not, why not ?

@Snorlaxo

"If not, why not ?"

Because it was a long time ago and we cannot blame or place guilt upon today's generation for the sins of their great great great grandfathers.

Especially when other countries refuse to even acknowledge the sins of their previous generations let alone feel any guilt for them. How many people in Turkey feel guilt for the Armenian genocide today? How many Russians feel guilt for the mass rapes and ethnic cleansing of Germans in WW2? How many Algerians feel guilt for the Barbary slave trade that continued after the Transatlantic slave trade was abolished?

In short because it's time to move on.

There's a big difference between a) placing blame on today's generation for the horrors perpetrated by previous generations, and b) recognising that those horrors happened and so preventing them from being erased from history books. Historical revisionism helps no-one other than those who would be ok with those horrors happening again.

If it was about stopping the horrors from the past happening again @howardtjmoon then the slavery reparations lot would put their efforts into stopping modern day slavery. Instead, they're trying to extract money for crimes committed to other people long dead - by other people long dead.

I don't know whether you've ever spoken to Germans about their sense of historic guilt for WW2. It really is extreme and not justified or healthy now.

After WW2, there was a comprehensive and frankly brutal de-natzification process. It was necessary and very effective - and I think contributed hugely to Germany moving on from WW2 and becoming the power at the heart of Europe that it is today.

But I think the mindset from that process has remained. And 80 years later, it's time for Germany to move on. The great-grandchildren of the perpetrators shouldn't be holding guilt. They're no different - certainly not more likely to repeat the past - than the great grandchildren of the victims.

It's a perfect storm at the moment and has been building for a long time.

It's interesting how far right groups are trying to distance themselves from the past. They're distancing themselves from 'far right' saying it's meaningless and from past atrocities associated with the far right.

The AfD obviously don't need convincing but voters do.

Hard Left and Hard Right have both committed atrocities in the past.
.
The zeitgeist seems to be moving Right just now, with hardening attitudes towards immigration and nationalism everywhere. But the Left is no better: they are encouraging anti-semitism, which has the highest risk of repeating the past.

It's a time of increasing populism and polarization.

No, in my opinion, we should not look at Musk's actual words, as he has a tendency to sugar-coat. We should instead try to guess his intent - which I imagine is to promote the German far-right neo-Nazi movement.

we should not look at Musk's actual words... We should instead try to guess his intent - which I imagine...

Ooh, yes! Let's just invent whatever we like!

Then we can choose something really emotionally manipulative and act as if it's actually true!

Surely you're not so naive as to imagine that heads of companies or heads of state are invariably truthful and forthcoming about their plans and motivations?

The holocaust was not a war crime

The Poles etc. being murdered was a war crime when they were prisoners.

The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg beg to differ.

LOL!

Sure Jan.

Ooh, I think that's the first time I've actually been called a misogynistic, passive-aggressive, womens-name put-down, intended to put me in my place (obviously inferior to right-thinking you)!

I guess it's a common enough way of trying to shut up opinions people find uncomfortable that it was always going to happen.

I'm genuinely not sure what you disagree with in my comment.

Atrocities from hard left and hard right? There are so many on both sides that this would surprise me. Sooo many communist atrocities from Stalin starving Ukraine, the destruction of the Aral sea, the Cultural revolution. Many millions of people dead.

Zeitgeist moving right? I mean, look at election results internationally. Listen to what people in the UK are saying too.

The antisemitism of the Left? If you're questioning that then I imagine that's because you've either completely drunk the Left-wing cool aid, or you are anti-semitic yourself and so just can't see it. Possibly both. Maybe even going on terrorist-apologist marches. I can't help you if that's the case.

“Misogynostic”

LOL! Sure Jan

Yep, misogynistic. Trying to bully women into not speaking up. Did you really not realise that's the dynamic of those insults?

I suppose you haven't thought about it.

Do you actually have any thoughts to contribute?

Or are you just enjoying making youself feel clever?

Yes. My contribution matches the level of debate you are engaging in.

”MISogYNiSt”

Sure Jan!

I don't know a single German born after WWII that feels guilty about what happened. All the Germans I know understand they cannot be held responsible for the actions of their great-grandparents.

What they do feel is purpose - the purpose of ensuring that the world never forgets what happened in their country so that it may never happen again. The people I know are sad and shocked how an advanced society could gradually descend to allow this kind of barbarism again.

But this guilt myth is often pushed by those who'd rather ignore their history because it can feel very uncomfortable when the parallels become too obvious