Lucy Letby innocent?

[dubsie]

I posted a thread a while back saying that the conviction of Lucy Letby was questionable and I believe it might be a miscarriage of justice.

The more I read and the more evidence that comes to the public space the more I think this is going to be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in British history.

Turns out there's no medical evidence at all

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/feb/04/no-medical-evidence-to-support-lucy-letby-conviction-expert-panel-finds

So the conviction has been based on circumstial evidence and a written note authored on the advice of a therapist.

I think a rapid look at this trial and the evidence is imperative.

Is that right Rumpole?

"she lingered around when one set of parents were saying goodbye and made them feel uncomfortable"

possibly the most moronic reason for thinking someone is guilty, ever

It was quite lucky for the ones doing the scapegoating that she happened to have notes saying "I killed them" in her flat. I mean, I presume they didn't know that they were there.

I am always really surprised that anyone takes the notes seriously and have to admit it does kind of make me pause for thought. It was so obvious to me the notes were evidence of someone in absolute anguish and that sort of hysterical emotion doesn’t tally at all with the coldness you’d need to kill what, seven babies?

Or that they were doing a therapeutic exercise. I am having a hard time at the moment, and at a therapy session this week, my therapist asked me to write down some of my negative beliefs about myself on pieces of paper.

At the end, she asked if I wanted to take them home. I didn't, but if I had, and had had my belongings combed for evidence that I'd committed a crime, some of those belief statements could have looked spectacularly damning.

My point is that therapeutic exercises often ask us to write down beliefs about ourself that we know perfectly well are not objectively true eg one of mine was 'I am completely invisible.' I can easily see how someone in considerable distress could write 'I am evil' or to claim to have killed, especially if the dead people in question were vulnerable babies whose medical care she was involved with.

Which is not to say LL is innocent. I don't know. But the conviction certainly looks increasingly unsafe.

There were also other notes saying why is this happening to me, I haven’t done anything etc. Actually just a stream of consciousness and written down as part of her therapy. Obviously the jury only saw the damning notes

So if there is a retrial and she is found not guilty by the same rigorous process will you accept that she is not guilty?

Even if experts at the top of their fields are saying the conviction based on what was found to have killed the babies is unsound?
If there is a retrial with the sane rigorous process and she is found not guilty will you accept that?

If there is another court case then yes I will follow that to see what the new evidence is

But there is no new evidence tbh!

The evidence is medical records and they have been interpreted already by experts for the defence and the prosecution

There is simply no new evidence

The judge has already said Dr Lees paper was not significant at all when they were determining her guilt

Not sure why he finds it hard to grasp

I mean does this mean Dewi Evan’s & Dr Lee should get in a court room and argue it out!

Too late!

Yes so likely that we all want to defend a baby murderer isn't it. This whole thing has got to be more than I'd like after watching the press conference, really upsetting to see what has happened here. I have to step away from these discussions as comments like this one from the hard of thinking are really winding me up.

I strongly believe in karma and that the truth will eventually surface, however long it may take. I also believe LL is innocent and that the hospital used her as the scapegoat to cover up their incompetence. I hope they pay for their negligence and even more, for throwing an innocent victim under the bus in such a spectacular manner.

Fgs the drs and consultants did not think she was murdering babies

they just wanted her moved off the ward

they didn’t conspire against her

even Jayram didn’t think she was a killer he was worried about her practice

they were within their rights to ask to get her moved off the ward

if that had been done when they first asked then all of this might have been avoided

Hard of thinking - that’s a new one 😂

Says one of the people who’s jumped on the trial by TikTok bandwagon.

you get upset for someone who gives no shiny shits for anyone but herself, I’ll continue to be relieved a prolific serial killer is in the right place. 😅

So why did they want the hospital to go to the police? And why did they never review her practice?

Of course there is new evidence.

New scholarly research is evidence.

Even in the summary report you see the discussion of insulin refers to works not published before Letby's trial.

We know more every year

Sally Clark was freed because of new scholarly research.

(But it is a myth that the CCRC needs new evidence to act anyway).

@Oftenaddled

why don’t you read the evidence about what they tried to do about her practice?

see how the ward manager defended Letbys practice despite the concerns raised

believe me that hospital tried every which way possible to avoid calling the police

Is there a longer version of that report that will eventually be made public or is that report it.

I've read all that, yes. The consultants suggested that the police should be called, June 2016. Then they agreed with managers to wait and see what external reviews said. They also agreed to suspend Letby from the ward.

The external reviews said there were problems with the ward and that the deaths were all natural but that failures of care had most likely contributed them. Management considered that this meant there was no reason to blame Letby. The consultants disagreed and said the reports didn't explain the deaths to their satisfaction. They argued it out a few months and then the hospital arranged for consultants to meet their legal adviser and then the police. Management did not consider this necessary except to satisfy the consultants who were insisting the deaths couldn't be explained by problems on their unit.

Consultants then prepared a document selecting cases for the police to examine and including Letby as the person to investigate, met the police again, and it all kicked off.

Management believed the unit was unsafe and the consultants were making mistakes in care. That's why they weren't keen to call the police.

Consultants believed their unit provided perfectly adequate care so there must be another explanation.

Tuesday's panel suggests that management had it right. It's a good thing they downgraded the unit and didn't bring back intensive care in 2017 in spite of pressure from the consultants.

The external review the RCPCH suggested came to the conclusion that there were deaths that warranted forensic investigation IIRC.

The full report will go to the CCRC at the end of this month and that rmeans only Letby can agree to release it. McDonald said at the press conference that they would prioritise giving access to the families if they wanted it, and that the prosecution would receive a copy. I'm not sure then whether it would be legal to release the full official document, but I expect we may get more summaries.

You are a bit stupid. Hope you are never called to jury service with such a closed mind.

Let's be clear, no motive, noone caught her doing anything, the murders are from the brightest and leading paediatricians around tge world conclusively not murders and errors or worse incompetence, this wouldnt make it to trial now. Anyone still thinking she is a " baby killer" go back to your daily mail and immigrants out which I'm sure must be your other thing. Just bigoted opinions in spite of fact.

I haven’t watched the press conference. I did however follow the live text updates on the trial via the bbc. I said at the time that the conviction was definitely unsafe and that she’d successfully appeal it one day so I have never understood why people say there was evidence? I don’t think there was. Some of it was laughable at the time to anyone with half a brain - eg the fact that she was on shift at the time each of the babies went downhill. Erm of course she was, otherwise she’d never have been charged with their murder, would she! It’s not even remotely evidence, as she wasn’t on shift when numerous other babies went similarly downhill.

diary entries etc are just sensationalist and have been used to turn public opinion in the press.

no idea whether she actually did anything and neither do any of us, the only way it could be proven is if one or more of the witnesses come forward and admit they have fabricated elements of blame.

"Beyond all reasonable doubt"...

There is so much doubt and difference of opinion in this case.

The law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer. William Blackstone

I hope she gets an appeal soon.

Derek Bentleys case was worse, also Tim Evans. Huge miscarriages of justice they were both hanged.