Assisted Dying Bill

[1457bloom]

According to the latest yougov poll, 73% of the general public are in favour of this bill. Why is it that I hear politicians are against it. They are elected to represent their constituents. yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50989-three-quarters-support-assisted-dying-law

That's helpful, thanks. I'm broadly a Labour supporter but cringing at some of the things that have happened, and would support PR, so we are maybe not as far apart as we seemed. But I do think we have a broadly functioning democratic system compared to China, Russia, many North African states and much of the Middle East. We do not live in fear of our lives in the way people opposing the system do in those countries. I really value our country and culture, with all its flaws, and I think when we disparage it we need to think carefully about what the alternatives are.

Did you miss this @BishyBarnyBee? You appear to have replied to it.

I think most of the public agree with assisted dying in principle but are unaware of the details of the bill. For example it would apply only to people classed as terminally ill. I am not sure if that covers the type of conditions that it would be most useful for, e.g. motor neurone disease, severe dementia, locked-in syndrome. The politicians have to look at the details.

I'm not aware that they "went on about winter fuel" as part of their election campaign. I don't think you'll be able to find a single reference to it pre election.

Now you can argue it should have been in the manifesto. But that's not the same as them "going on about it" then doing the opposite.

And for what it's worth, it was quite right to take it away from pensioners on very good final salary pensions who don't need it. They went wrong in not thinking through the consequences for those just above the pension credit threshold, just as they went wrong not thinking about the most vulnerable businesses and the NI raise, and not thinking through the farmers inheritance tax issues where farms are land rich but cash poor. But they are trying to tackle a huge deficit and there are definitely businesses and farmers who are not paying their way. So it is a complex set of problems to solve. the Tories also chucked people under the bus to save money (bedroom tax, two child limit) but they made life worse for the most vulnerable and marginal so there was not the same outcry.

Sorry, got wound up and derailed the thread. Will stop now!

I agree that, having gone through supporting end of life care for two aged parents with dementia, I would 100% want assisted dying for myself if I was diagnosed. Though I do not regret one minute of the time we have spent supporting them, stressful and exhausting as it was. I assume that this would come at some point later - I recognise this is what opponents see as the thin end of the wedge, but it is absolutely what i would want for myself.

My biggest fear about this bill being defeated is that police will then again start prosecuting people for helping others go to Dignitas. That means anyone wanting to end their own life has to travel independently while they are still strong and conscious enough to do so. That's very hard with dementia.

I agree with everything you say. My mum had vascular dementia and I fear having to die like that more than anything. I’m so sorry you had to endure it twice, that’s just awful. 💐

I think it's only 13% the rest are don't knows.
It's an extraordinary high level of agreement for such a controversial subject.
Apparently generally speaking people are also much better at discussing it in a reasoned manner and being able to understand both sides as it is complex and nuanced.

And the Tories promised to bring down immigration yet increased it. Labour won over 400 seats, it's a very convincing win.

As far as I remember WFA wasn’t even mentioned pre election, let alone gone on and on about.

There have been seven attempts to pass an assisted dying law since 2010; it is nonsense to say the debate on this has been “rushed”, as many do. Politicians really have had the time to ensure proper safeguards are in place.

But it is the case with Mahmood and Streeting.

The bill has been deliberately designed to be as restrictive as possible, as the only chance to get it through.

If it does get into law, it could perhaps be revisited within five years, as by then we will have good evidence that it’s working, and of what’s not.

Well there’s a little thing called elections.

Oh gosh yes. Think harder

Our draft bill has more safeguards than any comparable legislation around the world. There will be five hours of debate in the House, followed by the usual procedure of scrutiny and amendment, both in the Lords and in committee.

I think it's because the "public" or the person thinks about themself in the situation whereas the politician has to consider other factors which are that: this will inevitably expand in scope as other individuals insist on it and that impact on what it will have on the vulnerable (chronically suicidal people with pd have accessed it on the continent) and then when (not if) it becomes about quality of life, the messages it will send to society as a whole.

Once this option is out if the box, it can never be put back in.

Good palliative care and assisted dying are not mutually exclusive. We can have both.

My feeling is that can this truly be a vote of individual MPs conciious? I think both Wes Streetin g and the justice Secretary should have remained silent on this issue as they are senior member s of governments with remote that cover the potential implementation of this bill.

I did find out justice secretaries comments quite stark in a sensitive debate where popular opinion is towards assisted dting. Cloning the state will offer death as a service does not add to the debate really and i is unnecessarily evocative.

the bill won't be passed as we are a conservative country and until we are a world purpose there won't the force in parliament to pass such a monumental bill.

MPs can't win votes by voting for but certainly where there is a significant religious element in their constituency then the MP will vote agianst. Any betting which way Jess Phillips will go?

I agree with everything you say but still fervently want assisted dying. The idea of dying in pain with total loss of dignity is horrifying to me.

Separately, people seem to have unrealistic expectations of palliative care, what it can achieve and how much of it is even available in the UK.

Our? More safeguards than anywhere in the world? Five hours of debate? Apologies as I can’t tell if this is a joke post.

Do you think that in a barely functioning NHS, resources will be poured into hospices and palliative care if there's a cheaper alternative?

Many people in favour of the bill have suffered through the pain of a loved one who didn't receive appropriate end of life care.

The reference to safeguards related to the content of the bill and the process outlined therein, not the process for getting it through parliament.

There aren't safeguards in the proposed PMB. It's riddled with holes. Great for lawyers though as it's all billable hours