About the worrisome trends of fascists/authoritarians

[MsAmerica]

I normally don't bother adding to threads that get insanely long, so I thought I would separately mention this:

I'm heartened by the posters here who are rightly worried about Trump and others like him.

And I'd like to mention a book I've just finished:

How Democracies Die
By Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/562246/how-democracies-die-by-steven-levitsky-and-daniel-ziblatt/

What did you learn from it?

well considering how educated the voting public in general are, we need a better system otherwise trump would not be in power

Maybe the rise in fascism is due to the poor alternatives we are faced with at the ballot box?

This Labour ‘disappointment’ of a government makes me concerned that this country will end up with a fascist leader at the helm. This government appears to be supporting/benefiting nobody and I fear people will become angrier if they continue in this vein. Traditional Labour governments stood on a platform that we were once familiar with. I genuinely don’t know what this government’s intentions are, other than to apparently punish the working classes indirectly. They used to be their voice.

Can’t we just have a decent, honest, fair centrist party that will benefit everyone to the best of their abilities. It appears not?

Yep. Totalitarianism, that's what we need. Take the vote away from the uneducated, great unwashed cos they never vote the right way

so your happy with trump then ?

@PlumViper

If you want an explanation of why Trump got elected then I suggest you watch the Jonathan Pie's video:

So basically Trump is Frank underwood and that's how he won ?

@PlumViper

"So basically Trump is Frank underwood and that's how he won ?"

Partly but also because Harris was such a poor candidate running such a poor campaign.

It's interesting listening to interviews with people who voted Trump that they always include the word "but".

For example "I think he's an asshole but he's going to improve the economy " or "He's said a lot of stuff I disagree with but he's going to stop illegal immigration " etc etc

Of course whether he does or doesn't is another matter and given his track record of lying it's likely that he won't deliver.

But to a lot of Americans entirely fed up with the state of the economy and the role of fat cat central Government at least he promised "change" whereas as Harris failed to clearly get across her policies other than basically the same as the last four years.

Very few, if any, voters cast their ballot with the aim of making things worse but for the candidate they perceive as most viable.

I agree! How about a basic intelligence test as a requirement to vote?

At what level of intelligence?
Only those with degrees from red bricks? Only those with a PhD?
What's your level of education?

Yes, but the puzzlement is, why the poor alternatives?

Is the problem that the creative problem-solvers don't want to bother with politics? Is the problem that an immense part of politics has to be onerous fund-raising? Is it that constituents are such an unreasonable bunch that politicians don't want to bother? Is it that the "decent, honest" people remain under the radar, but the crazies get the publicity and so get the vote? (Trump, obviously, won largely due to name recognition from his personal PR and TV career.)

'How democracies die'. Or 'why do people not vote like I want them to, and vote like they want to?'

I'm not sure they think: Hm, which candidate is most viable?

I suspect, especially with Republicans, it's more like: Hm, which candidate is the most likely to make me richer?

Do you think they should vote 'who will make other people richer?'

Wrong post

Is the problem that the creative problem-solvers don't want to bother with politics? Is the problem that an immense part of politics has to be onerous fund-raising? Is it that constituents are such an unreasonable bunch that politicians don't want to bother? Is it that the "decent, honest" people remain under the radar, but the crazies get the publicity and so get the vote?

All of these things contribute to poor election candidate choice, but the other problems are that

1. politicians need to make decisions for the long term benefit of citizens that will be unpopular in the short term and get them voted out. So they kick the cam down the road. See paying for care in old age.
2. The electorate are unrealistic in their expectations. For example, they want world beating healthcare free on demand whilst paying hardly any tax.

more dont rely on the media or joe down the pub

No, I think they should vote "Who will work for the general welfare of all, especially the non-rich, and is aligned with some basic national values of free speech, etc.?"

Sounds like you either don't understand, or don't support, the basic ideas underpinning the concept of democracy.

Completely agree, @user1467300911.

And along with unrealistic expectations, so many people don't even understand what a president can and cannot do. For instance, so many people think that the president unilaterally controls gasoline prices. Even Trump has a very dim understanding, which is why, first time around, aides kept trying to explain to him that certain things couldn't be done.

I rather think @WhereIsBebèsChambre might be making a (good) point regarding your view of what "democracy" is....

I so agree with you. Years ago we never thought Boris would be PM nor Trump President but it happened. Now Trump is in again and. I guess Boris is biding his time before Kemi gets the boot. And Farage is a populist ..

Well can you please explain your understanding then, as its clearly not mine, which is a voting system of the will of the people, not just some people who think they know best.

It's so strange that people question why Trump won or why the Democrats lost. Looking at some of the views on this thread it's pretty obvious! In fact I bet a lot of people voted Trump just to annoy the sanctimonious Kamala fans. And will carry on doing so unless the left mend their attitude.