The far right in Germany

[username44416]

Chillingly it looks like the far right AfD party has taken Saxony and Thuringia. Many in the party are Nazi sympathisers; is Europe's largest power on the brink of a resurgence in fascism?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/01/german-far-right-party-afd-state-election-victory-thuringia

Scary.

I can't help wondering how much of the right-wing authoritarian trends were triggered by Trump.

I doubt it's triggered by Trump, they've been building momentum for years on the back of anti immigration and remigration rhetoric. They were voted into the EU Parliament.

What's startling, is the ages of those who voted for them is very young and the area has some of the lowest levels of immigration in Germany.

It must be very distressing for Germans, a quarter of which are immigrants, and of course for the Jewish population.

Thuringia is of course where the Nazis first gained power in Germany.

I think it’s quite scary, but will it be contained to one area of Germany only? They are even using Nazi slogans if they can, I was reading. Scary that the support for them is growing.

Yes the leader uses Nazi slogans and was prosecuted. Others have also been found using Nazi rhetoric and sympathising with Nazis. They have got into the EU Parliament alongside other European far right groups.

I don't know about it being contained, they seem to be influencing mainstream parties who are taking a tougher stance on immigration.

In short they were not. However, immigration as we have seen here and in the US is concerning a lot of people. There are whole criminal gangs moving to the US and here so this party is weaponising this.

Are you in Germany? I'd love to hear your perspective.

This party (AfD) is most popular in the former East Germany, where there isn't what you'd call a solid multi-generational tradition of democracy and understanding that there are no easy answers. There also aren't a lot of immigrants there, and there are even fewer second- and third-generation people compared to the industrial powerhouse regions in the former West Germany.

In East Germany people were of course taught that the Nazis were bad, but because what had replaced them was also a dictatorship with secret police and all the trimmings, I think there was never the complete rejection of everything about that period that took place in the West.

Almost as scary is the BSW party (always be suspicious of a party named after its leader), which — unlike the older (ex-East German communists) "Die Linke", who are more like Corbynites — is very close to the far tip of the horseshoe. Imagine George Galloway polling 15%.

Very interesting, many thanks.

Not only scary for the Jewish people - Islamaphobia seems to be rampant in many places.

Of course, I meant given the history of fascism and the holocaust, to see an uprise in fascism must be terrifying.

Yes, of course. To be honest, I'd be scared to be in a minority now, whether Jewish, Muslim, black or whatever. I was scared for minorities during our recent race riots. The far right seems to be on the rise in many countries.

Not necessarily a minority. The AfD are calling for mass remigration, meaning that they want to expell anyone who isn't an ethnic German. It was one of their campaign slogans; summer, sun and remigration.

They had a meeting with other far right groups where mass remigration programmes were discussed.

Less Trump and more Merkel letting a million plus non vetted 'refugees' into Germany without any mandate to do so from the public.

That's terrifying.

Whoops, pressed post too soon.

Perhaps a sober discussion as to what constitutes ‘far right’ is required rather than using that label for everything ‘not left’ or parties in favour of some kind of immigration controls. I have noticed of late how 'far right' is now frequently being replaced with ‘extreme right’ rendering any notion of a political spectrum a bit redundant.

European mainstream political parties have hardly done a stellar job in recent years leading to voters to take a punt on the 'new' parties that are willing to actually discuss the sticky issues that are bothering large swathes of the electorate despite the fact said parties have little to no experience in high office.

Vlaams Belang of Belgium, Freedom Party of Austria, Conservative People's Party of Estonia, Finns Party, The Party for Freedom, Progress Party, Law and Justice etc (and yes Alternative for Germany) have all benefited from running on platforms opposing multiculturalism, immigration, neoliberalism and globalisation. While some of these parties are 'fringe' others are now knocking on the doors of power or at least in the position of being kingmakers. It's hardly a surprisingly outcome and was telegraphed at least a decade plus ago but I guess it was easier to just call people stupid and racist and ignore their concerns.

Indeed

It's hard to believe this is happening in 2024. I used to believe that society would just continually improve, but not anymore. As Tony Benn said- every generation must fight the same battles, again and again.

Fascism is far right, Nazi sympathisers are far right, people who believe Germany should be for ethnic Germans is far right.

I agree with this. And the worst thing that can be done, but is the reaction in both Germany and France, is the refusal to engage with those 30%, and band together the middle and "far left" against them. How are those peoples, whether you believe they are far right or not, going to react? Look at the riots here. Most were not, in fact, far right per se, but just disgruntled citizens looking for representation. Any representation that seems to listen to their concerns. The far right have filled that space. Ignoring this demographic could be disastrous.

How do you engage with fascists who believe in ethnonationalism?

Germany’s demographics mean that they badly need immigrants.

Merkel letting a million in all at once in a chaotic deluge was the wrong way to do it.

No other party is seriously discussing mass migration so they are getting lots of votes. Support will continue to grow for these parties as long as the mainstream ones ignore the issue or denigrate the voters.

Two of my (west) German co-workers are openly AfD members now, both women in their 40s/50s, who were fairly liberal prior to Merkel opening the floodgates in 2015 but now they are not feeling safe. One was telling me she can't go jogging in her local park any more unless she is in a big group as the number of rapes/sexual assaults have dramatically increased.

Germany’s demographics mean that they badly need immigrants.

Most European countries have aging populations and low birth rates. However, I am not convinced that solving this via what is essentially a giant human ponzi scheme is the answer.

Of course though the massive elephant in the room that is rarely discussed in good faith is that not all migration is of equal merit and that certain people from certain parts of world carry with them cultural baggage that sets them at odds with the host nations societal norms or at the very least places them at a huge economic/social disadvantage. Many migrants from across the globe have successfully settled in the UK/Europe and within a few generations improved their lot immeasurably as they have managed to achieve that sweet spot of prospering economically and retaining their cultural identity while not siloing themselves into insular inward looking communities. There is a lot more nuance to the migration debate that needs to be discussed (and yes that means some uncomfortable truths) beyond the politically blunt 'all inward migration is good/bad' that we currently have.

By accepting that not everyone who voted for the AfD is a card carrying fascist who believes in ethno-nationalism. Some (possibly many) will be un-represented people who are fed up with the political elite telling them how to live and not listening to what started off as reasonable concerns about demographic and cultural changes.