Election - how soon for VAT on school fees?

[Labtastic]

So I see we're likely to have an election in early July. Obviously that spells the end of the godawful tories which is great, but also hastens the incoming VAT on school fees which, for us, is bad. We are one of those families that no one believes exists who stretch ourselves with school fees, and are going to be very pushed for an extra 20%.

Question is - do we think Labour can make this happen in time for September? It'll be our DC's last year of fee paid education and was hoping the timeline for VAT coming in would be stretched out a bit...

@Another76543

Thanks for the reply. The academic standard won't fall massively and for these schools even with some fall in the academic attainment scores they will still be the top some schools, with the same facilities and teaching standards.

There are more reasons to prefer a school to just academics. Facilities, ethos, culture, distance from home, boarding specifics etc.

In my opinion m, private schools are bubbles anyway. Whether it's slightly more inclusive bubbles as of now or slightly less inclusive bubbles with Labour don't make a difference in how kids are equipped for the real world.

I really can't see it happening, it sounds good but in reality would cause uproar. Regardless of your feeling on private vs state the idea of taxing education is wrong.
Same was as Rishi would have no intention of military service etc.

It'll be a way of pushing for more shared resources or maybe a "tax" on profits made by schools.

@heysister Unless your school is forced to close due to the VAT rise, like Alton School has (apparently):
www.itv.com/news/meridian/2024-05-26/private-school-forced-to-close-blames-falling-numbers-and-rising-fees

@FiveFoxes

Hi. Thanks for the reply.

I predict that the large, highly selective and top performing schools won't be the first ones to be affected by this.

‘I'm not bulldozing or bribing. ‘

You are, as most wealthy people do. Along with bullying. That’s your privilege though, and if someone chooses not to behave like ahuman decent being because $$ allows them to behave badly, then so be it.
It happens the world over.

In what way Heysister is bulldozing or bribing? I assume she didn't invent this Labour policy but simply stating the fact that it will benefit her children.

In what way it is different to the posters saying that forced exodus of happily settled middle class kids from private schools will improve state schools and benefit state educated kids?

Hello I saw we are all discussing VAT but our school has mentioned business rate relief and the removal of it affecting the cost base of the school too. Does anyone have info on this?

The Labour Party have said they’ll introduce VAT. In addition to that, they’ve also said they’ll remove the current 80% business rate exemption. I haven’t read the details of the exemption fully, but I’ve a feeling that the exemption only applies to private schools which are registered charities. I don’t think that those which aren’t charities benefit from that exemption.

In - Somerset big town area, there are 4 private schools, one always rumored to be in trouble of closure, another is “more affordable” and 2 more expensive.

There is also the very recent influx of “newcomers” they say 8,000 and I don’t know if that includes children.
So, there are multiple push /pull factors.

Will indep schools shrink with one closure?

Or, will flooded state schools with new educational challenges push more into private sector and schools increase enrollment!??

is that Labour master plan? Increase indep enrollment and collect more VAT because they know population increases further erode majority of state funded schools.

Further increasing the education and wealth gap, targeting increasing populations of voters at the low end ? Killing GB both side of gap, bit by bit.

That too will impact then.

This may have been said on this site already and apologies if I'm repeating it therefore, but I think every parent of every single child in private school should apply to their local state education authority for a state school place for their child (whether they intend to move their child or not).

This will help demonstrate the fact that the state sector will simply not be able to cope.

It won't be able to cope with the applications, much less the additional kids if they showed up in large numbers.

It's a ridiculous policy put forward by labour. It just creates more division by widening the class divide. The wealthy will be unaffected and will be able to pay the increased fees. It's people like me (who have made sacrifices to give my child a better life than I had) who suffer.

Why take away from some kids to give to others; and taking away their education at that!. It's abhorrent!

If Labour really wants to level the playing field, be really radical:

1. ban private schools
2. ban private tutoring
3. let all kids rely on the education they get from the state system
4. bus kids from poor areas to the nearest wealthy one (and from wealthy areas to the nearest poor one) for schooling.

People could also apply to their LEA, and then appeal for a better school (on perfectly justifiable grounds) when they get allocated an unsuitable state school.

Labour can't answer the question

The 'level the playing field,' comment does annoy me. I was a free school meals kid, fortunately got a government assisted place and a scholarship to go to an independent school which changed my life. Champagne socialists in leafy villages where their children go to local authority schools with a 55% GCSE pass rate for English/maths have spoken to me about the importance of 'levelling the playing field,' and charging VAT on fees. We pay for our son to go to an independent school because his catchment state school has rampant bullying/has had knife crime lockdowns and an English/maths GCSE pass rate of 33%. So not really a level playing field.

‘This may have been said on this site already and apologies if I'm repeating it therefore, but I think every parent of every single child in private school should apply to their local state education authority for a state school place for their child (whether they intend to move their child or not).’

Go for it! In our city, as with many, there are PLENTY of school places. So you will be offered a place in an undersubscribed school.
You’ll be doing everyone a favour - making sure that schools don’t close. And if ALL those places are taken up, and your private school closes as a result, then there are lots of jobs available for the teachers who will be looking for work.

WIN-WIN. Private school parents whinging about the end of tax breaks that should have been ended years ago is hardly unexpected.

The reality is - your schools have been putting school fees up way above inflation for decades now, raising money to spend on extravagant facilities that have little to do with the need of the average pupil and everything to do with attracting rich oversea families.
Private schools have, for years, raising fees and charging what they think parents will pay rather than what they need to charge to make the school viable.

Your ire is misplaced.

What about those in the private sector with SEN (where the state alternative has often failed them), or those doing subjects which their allocated state school doesn’t offer? They’d have very good grounds for appeal, taking up even more state resources. Do you honestly think that parents are just going to settle for the local failing school with space?

"Tax break" - such disingenuous wording

Well lots of private school parents have already applied for places or enquired about them and have been told that there are none. Some have been told to try schools outside their county!

It’s not a tax break. It’s not been possible to put VAT on school fees until recently because it’s against EU law. Private schools save the taxpayer money.

And I’ve put the school fees that I paid back in 2013 into an inflation calculator and compared them with the current amount for reception year at my DC’s school. It shows that they have risen in line with inflation.

Private schools don’t employ just teachers though, do they? Where are all the support staff going to go, on benefits? Surely, this will not be saving the taxpayers money, your view is somewhat naive.

That last paragraph just isn't true. Guessing you dont use an independent school?!

That paragraph is entirely true, even pro private school press like The Telegraph has acknowledged this.
Independent studies have looked school fess over the past 20 years and some schools have doubled them.

‘Where are all the support staff going to go, on benefits?’

More good news! state schools also employ supports staff! Sports coaches, Music tutors, Grounds staff, Pastoral care staff, theatre techs, Science and IT techs, Finance, admin, And on and on
But presumably these ‘world class’ staff will either find other roles in education or have transferable skills that are applicable to roles in private companies?

And support staff are the ones cut to the bones already in state schools. Where will state schools get the money to suddenly hire the private school support staff?.
DDs private school is the 2nd biggest employer in the market town it is in.

They may well gain employment elsewhere, as with any other large employer going bust, but generally people express regret when an employer goes bust to those who lose their job.

Looking at ISC schools alone (which isn’t all private schools), they support around 280,000 jobs. Assuming just 10% are displaced, how is the state sector going to fund 28,000 new jobs?