Election - how soon for VAT on school fees?

[Labtastic]

So I see we're likely to have an election in early July. Obviously that spells the end of the godawful tories which is great, but also hastens the incoming VAT on school fees which, for us, is bad. We are one of those families that no one believes exists who stretch ourselves with school fees, and are going to be very pushed for an extra 20%.

Question is - do we think Labour can make this happen in time for September? It'll be our DC's last year of fee paid education and was hoping the timeline for VAT coming in would be stretched out a bit...

Or in Oxfordshire

A bigger hit will be caused by those parents not busting a guy to earn as much money thereby paying less tax.

If a family now decides not to start in Reception at a mid-range PS they will save upwards of 250k fees + 50k VAT over the 14 years. That means they need to earn 600k less over the time their DC is at school which generates approx 300k less tax. Add on the c100k funding needed for the state place and suddenly one family deciding a single child won’t start at PS ends up costing the taxpayer 400k.

Hopefully there is a full impact assessment and consultation process before any changes are made as these sums will show the policy to be economically illiterate meaning Labour will then be forced to justify the change on non-financial grounds which is tough to do for the imposition of a new tax. Labour really won’t want to be doing that as it will expose them as having either lied to the electorate or being totally inept. Neither is a good look for them.

I’ve just had to sit in front of a panel of people on an appeal to get my dd in to a state secondary school. The school is full all the places were allocated to kids from feeder schools, SEN, in care, siblings.

Private school kids are at the back of a very young list of priorities.

So your point isn’t true

@Ritadidsomethingbad
"Private school kids are at the back of a very young list of priorities."
No they aren't. The admissions criteria will be applied in exactly the same way to them as to any other child.

Whereabouts are you and have you asked every private school within 100 miles about what they offer to state schools?
Our school does free holiday clubs for all local kids (ages 3-11) every school holiday, loans out sports fields/equipment and swimming pool free of charge.
It is also the 2nd largest employer in the town.

LOL! I’m so close to the school I can see it from by house. DD should have been offered a place on that fact alone.

Try again.

Awaiting FOI replies from every LA in the UK but you assertion that there is a surplus of places is incorrect.
Plus the spare places may not be where the kids leaving private school live.

Ealing state 0 places for Yrs 10+11.

@Ritadidsomethingbad "LOL! I’m so close to the school I can see it from by house. DD should have been offered a place on that fact alone."

On what grounds was she not offered a place?

You forget though that private schools employ not only teachers but a lot of support staff too, where would these people go? On benefits?

Lots of Catholic schools fit into this category.
Unfortunately there ARE lots of schools which are a bit “hit and miss” in terms of outcomes and behaviour. Or are great if the child is bright and well motivated but for those who are average, they end up in the lower streams where even low level disruption ( let alone the behaviour one reads about here) hinders their learning.
I don’t believe the majority who send their children to private schools do so out of snobbery and so their child can mix with the “right” people ( whatever that might be)!

The demographics you described is exactly the demographics in my local private schools though, so I don’t get your point, you seem wildly out of touch who goes to private schools these days. Talking of snobbery!

Exactly!

And whilst they may have a rich and interesting state school, I went to a state school which was in such a deprived area where I was only 1 of 2 out of 30 kids in the class whose parents worked and consequently I was bullied throughout schooling because i was a bit different. It was frankly traumatic.

I would hope private tuition is included for VAT. It would be a weird policy to charge VAT for a school over tuition.

But it does lead to Labour having to define what they are and aren't charging VAT on. What is Private Education? Because Education you pay for covers everything from Nursery to University and includes sports clubs, music lessons, Saturday school (ie Polish Saturday school) and tuition as well.

Why is it?

There is a wealth of independent research that shows that continued Austerity has cost lives.

One only has to look at the cuts to Domestic Violence refuges, over half of women who need help are turned away... what do you think happens to them?

You missed
"All the high earners will stop working now that they don't need to pay for private schools any more so no more high earner tax"

Over subscribed was the official reason. The headmaster stood up and told the panel how detrimental it would be if the 5 kids that were appealing got in. His reasons went from class lessons plans disrupted - to ‘influx of traffic’ at the start and end of the day having an impact on the local residents. I felt like I was in court it was ridiculous.

The only criteria we met was being in the catchment area.

However because she didn’t meet the other criteria of priority places ( which were - coming from specific feeder schools, SEN, in care, siblings ect) she didn’t get offered a place. It really isn’t an easy path way in to state school when you’ve been in private and there is definitely bias.

I would stop working if DD went state because my wage pays the fees. Many of us are in the same boat.

I could then be there to take her to tutors and all the extra curricular activities.

I can't see how dropping from being a high rate tax payer to no wage at all but paying for extra curriculars and tutors would work out better for as many people as you think.

Well I'm not a higher rate tax payer for a start.
So we would lose my wage but that's a break even as i wouldn’t need a car etc. On 1 wage we could just about afford extra curricular activities and a weekly tutor until GCSEs.

Fair enough, I work flexibly to allow myself to do that for my kids.

My point is that many private parents are in the same position as us. Please don't buy into the sweeping stereotypes being portrayed by supporters of VAT. The private education system is much more nuanced and varied. There isn't just 1 type of parent, there are many, many different types.

To be honest, I have learnt a lot from reading these threads.
I don't support private schools but I understand more about the issues than I did.
If we had one child instead of two, we might be in this position as we knew we couldn't afford two so didn't try.

Because it’s parents like you who are quick to pass moral judgement, but live in the nice catchment areas, going to the nice schools, this is your privilege for which we are ALL paying for.

You've made a fair few assumptions.

I'm honestly not passing moral judgement: my DH and I are both privately educated. My DH in uk, me in another country.

My dd does go to what is considered a good state school, but we have to live rurally because we cannot afford the housing costs in the town where the school is. I am fine with that because I prefer rural living. My dd doesn't have lacrosse and Latin and a choice of multiple foreign languages on the curriculum, and she won't get taken on school trips to ballet and theatre, but she will get a good standard of education.

However, in spite of it being a good state school, there are a lot of people who can afford houses in that town (we can't) who choose to instead send their children to private school because in their opinion the state school is a 'bad school'. We see all those children getting on a bus in the morning in swathes and heading off on a 40minute bus trip to the nearest city where the private school is.

So they live in a really nice small town, buying up the nice houses because they can afford them, but don't send their children to the good state school.

Just last night I was listening to another friend who lives in a catchment with a state school I envy and would have liked my dd to go to. But nope, apparently it's not good enough, so hers are off to private too. Totally her choice.

But like a pp upthread said, I'm skeptical that people wealthy enough to send three children to private school (like my friend last night) would choose to live in an area of deprivation and poverty where the state school might have a host of poverty related problems.

My friend doesn't live in an area like that. She lives in a desirable area with a very good state school, it's just not good enough for HER kids by HER standards. And I suspect that's the case for a fair number of people who send their kids to private.

But reading this thread, I've taken on a whole new insight into it.

I'm now wondering if those wealthy people occupying the homes in our beautiful town with a good state school tell the story differently. Perhaps they feel they're scrimping and saving because they can't buy an equivalent sized house in the city? Maybe the home they have in our village is their idea of a massive compromise? And maybe they don't think that's an issue because, after all, they are living in an area with a bad state school and therefore they aren't creating a housing issue where people compete to send their kids to that school because who an earth would want to send their kids to a bad state school. I hadn't thought of it like that before.

And the reality is a lot of people, myself included, work full time to afford these fees. If I reduced to part time or a less stressful job then I could save paying an awful lot of tax and be there for school pick ups and drop offs. Not sure, personally, that I will but I'm sure others will.

We only have 1 DD and couldn't afford to send 2 either. We are very far away from the stereotype being pedalled by Labour etc and unfortunately this policy will impact on the DC of parents like us.