Election - how soon for VAT on school fees?

[Labtastic]

So I see we're likely to have an election in early July. Obviously that spells the end of the godawful tories which is great, but also hastens the incoming VAT on school fees which, for us, is bad. We are one of those families that no one believes exists who stretch ourselves with school fees, and are going to be very pushed for an extra 20%.

Question is - do we think Labour can make this happen in time for September? It'll be our DC's last year of fee paid education and was hoping the timeline for VAT coming in would be stretched out a bit...

As long as 'i'm alright, Jack'

Eh?

Is every other country in the world unfair then as no other country taxes education?

The EU has even made it illegal to levy VAT on education. Strange move by them if in your opinion it is unfair not to add VAT to education.

Why are parents like you entitled to have it easier than other parents?

They’re not having it easier. They pay exactly the same tax on other things as you would. With regard to private education, parents are paying for something which others are getting free from the state.

How is it fair that some parents can access a brilliant state education at no cost to them, but others who live in different areas with underperforming state schools can only achieve a brilliant education by paying for it? The parents who are “having it easier” are those who can access a great education at no cost to them.

“hope so too. Also I do believe people like you exist, I now believe you’ll become a person like me, someone who can’t afford it- end of.”

People like this is what the majority of Labour voters are. Yuck!

I’m Sure most people are exaggerating about not being able to afford the increase and because of this poor me attitude I have not got much sympathy.

The cost of everything has skyrocketed. My car insurance (a necessity for me to work) has doubled because someone crashed into me and because I had to make a claim, despite the other party fully funding it, my policy is now extortionate. I have to suck it up and pay it as I need the car and will cut back elsewhere, life is unfair.

You are lucky there is a choice with education, either suck it up and pay it or sadly you can’t afford private but state education is free, so join the rest of us in state. You are acting as if your kids will be out on the street.

Wow. Which school is this? Is it in London?
That would actually be quite ironic - if all the private school stopped all the bursaries and the various charity partnerships they run, the scheme might actually backfire. Almost wish the schools would threaten to do that, it might make Labour think twice!

Same for ours, ours have stated they will remove bursaries and will no longer provide facilities for free to local state schools. No more free swimming for local schools, no more free books, netball courts, no more using our theatre / school halls. They are also removing free holiday club places.

Beyond that, further afield schools will no longer be able to use our boarding rooms for free out of term time either.

It's sad, it's a policy insistent on racing to the bottom. Rather than pulling everyone up.

It's not free. It's paid for with taxes. We are all paying towards a system and it's a personal choice to opt out or supplement it, whatever the reason might be.

If I had to pay for extra tuition, for example, to support my child in a state school there would be tax implications. If others want to 'top up' their child's education outside the state system by going private, then there should be tax implications for them too. Otherwise you have some in society who get a tax free top up, and the rest who don't. It's simply not fair.

Most private tutoring is exempt from VAT

Why would you want to punish someone else’s child because you can’t afford something. I simply don’t understand this mentality.

And I don't "opt out" of paying for it - I pay around 80k in tax and ni - that's not opting out of anything.

The politics of envy…

That isn’t a bursary, it’s a sports scholarship.

Lots have schools have indicated bursaries and various charity partnerships they run will be the first thing to go.

The thing that I can’t understand is this. Say 20% of those with children in private education cannot afford to cover a 20% fee increase (I know that some schools are estimating it to be around that or higher). Those parents will need to relocate their children to other schools. Some
may go to a ‘cheaper’ independent I guess (I wonder what the projections are on that?) but let’s assume that they go into the state system. Those parents can’t cover F x 20%, where F is what they currently spend on fees, but they can cover F. So won’t those parents, after taking their children out of independent schools, do things like spend F on a mortgage on a house in a great state school catchment, tutoring, extra curricular activities etc. Won’t this then eg further increase house prices in areas with good schools, and contribute to those schools being further oversubscribed? Further pushing out those who can’t afford to buy in these areas or tutor their children?

Also, are we confident that (i) the projections for what this will raise are accurate, (ii) the money that IS raised will be effectively spent and (iii) the impact of that extra funding will offset the pressure on school places than an influx of parents with extra money to spend on mortgages and tutoring will bring?

Something like 18% of pupils at Independent Schools are identified as having SEN. Many children in fact attend independents at huge sacrifice to their parents because there is no local alternative available. Won’t this put further pressure on already hugely under resourced SEN facilities in state schools?

I just don’t have any confidence that the net result of this policy will actually result in an overall increase in the quality of education for children in this country.

@Abby00079 I meant, opt out of using state, not opt out of saying taxes.

Please explain what tax implications there would be on private tuition because my DC’s tutor doesn’t charge VAT. Mind you, they might have to with this new policy if education is no longer VAT exempt.

I opt out of using state for one of my DC’s, that means that I save the taxpayer £7k per year, probably more given that they suffered from extreme school refusal and anxiety so the cost of mental health support would also have to be factored in if they were moved to a school that couldn’t meet their needs. Confused why people think I’m getting some kind of tax break when I’m actually saving the taxpayer a whole load of money!

Hmmmm though if you are making a decision to educate a child in the independent sector you are not ‘topping up’ their state sector education, you are opting out of the state sector and providing that education privately. Plus isn’t private tutoring usually VAT exempt?

‘Same for ours, ours have stated they will remove bursaries and will no longer provide facilities for free to local state schools. No more free swimming for local schools, no more free books, netball courts, no more using our theatre / school halls. They are also removing free holiday club places.’

Wow, I am genuinely surprised that your school offered those ‘free’ - there’s not a private school within a 100 miles of here that does that - it’s all for hire of course.
Justbas our school hall, theatre, 4G, pitches,sports hall etc is…
Do you think state schools don’t have any facilities? We do use the local pool for lessons, I’ll give you that …

“Why are parents like you entitled to have it easier than other parents?

It's completely indefensible in my opinion, and it's not about rich vs poor, it's about principles of fairness.”

Because it’s parents like you who are quick to pass moral judgement, but live in the nice catchment areas, going to the nice schools, this is your privilege for which we are ALL paying for.
If you are all for fairness, how would you feel if Labour imposed extra tax on people who live in these areas, because let’s face it, not everyone can afford the £1m+ houses in these areas, right? Bidding wars drive the asking prices by over £100k sometimes, by the same people who “despise” the private sector no doubt “because it’s not fair”. Give me strength!

A lot of people are saying that the amount of people who will actually pull existing children out of private school will be minimal, so there won't be a run on state school places. However, while this might be true, there will be a lot of people who would have gone private but now won't start that journey. When everything else is costing more, many people now won't start the independent commitment, whether it be at reception or Y7 or otherwise. So that VAT won't be collected, and each one will cost the state the £8k or roundabouts. I wonder how that's been accounted for in Labour's numbers?

Ok.
thats fine though. There is a surplus of school places and that will increase. In our local primaries class sizes are dropping and a least one small school is having to close.

Lot’s of room, and given how many pupils are apparently ‘gifted’ in some way and qualify for fees discounts they’d be an assert to any school, won’t they?
And there are jobs for school teachers who are let go by private schools too.

Less students starting the ‘journey’ isn’t the catastrophe for the country you seem to think it is.

‘but live in the nice catchment areas, going to the nice schools’

Jesus the snobbery! Again, I am surprised at the number of parents who can afford private fees yet apparently live in dodgy areas, where the schools are all awful and just not ‘nice’ enough!

My DCs go to school with the kids of Doctors, dentists, actors, musicians, business owners, immigrants, hospital workers, cleaners, bus drivers, teachers, supermarket workers, people on benefits.
Some in his friends live in £1m houses, some live in temporary accommodation, a lot live on the biggest housing estate in the city as it’s in the catchment too.

It’s a rich, vibrant, interesting school - a good one BECAUSE it’s not full of ‘nice’ anything… it mirrors our city.

This fear private school parents have of their children mixing with the kind of kids they will one day mix with is adults is bizarre.

There aren't lots of spaces everywhere