Truly shocked by Tory bank trials for benefit claimants.

[caringcarer]

When Tory's suggested looking at people's bank accounts to stop benefit fraud I thought they might catch out just a few people so it would be pointless doing it. I've just seen this article in local press and I couldn't believe my eyes about the number of bank accounts having an average of £50k yet claiming UC or low income benefits fraudulently. It was a real eye opener. Anyone else shocked?

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/dwp-tries-bank-account-checks-29191387

Yawn, here we go again. Happy Saturday everyone.

That’s much more fraud than I would have expected (60,000 out of 713,000 accounts checked if I’m reading the article right).

Talk about moving glacially, though - checks not in place until 2027/2028.

You should keep a link to that article to post on the endless threads in which we’re constantly told that there’s no fraud/fraud is minuscule and no one has ever seen any evidence of it. This doesn’t surprise me in the least.

Given they cannot get the capital limit for Pension Credit right I'm not sure I'd trust the veracity of the rest of the article.

Do we have a link to the source of the numbers?

Not surprised. Hopefully the deterrent effect will be useful.
Not a benefits basher and it’s tedious to have that immediate comment when people want to discuss something important. I assume the ‘yawn’ brigade also agree that people with 50k+ in their accounts should cease their claims?

I'm reserving judgement until the figures have been reviewed by someone impartial - the government are known to be biased and to issue misleading information.

I don't agree with the automatic surveillance on privacy grounds, this is information the DWP have always been able to access when required.

So, interesting but wait and see is my position.

They looked at nearly three quarters of a million accounts of which 8% may have had too much capital.

Also no reference to personal injury payments etc. which are ignored under pension credit rules?

No breakdown between pension age and working age claimants is designed to mislead.

I'm not sure why it's news the dwp have been getting figures like that from hmrc for decades, I have had a least 15 cases of fraud where people have had over 50k in their bank, its usually an inheritance that they try to keep quiet about and don't realise that eventually it will be flagged up

I don’t really see the difference between HMRC taking annual data from banks and building societies of Interest payments to calculate people’s tax to doing the same for benefits.

Yes, but 'may have' is not helpful.

There are capital exclusions in the eligibility criteria for good reason.

A figure of % fraud would be useful.

Releasing this is intended to whip up outrage without detail. THAT is what is tiresome.

I sincerely hope that when Labour take up government they will take a peek at the bank accounts of generous Tory party donors with a view to checking for any money-laundering activity and suspiciously "inventive" tax avoidance.

Or are the rich automatically honest and squeaky clean?

I'm no fan of automatic bank surveillance for anyone. But it is here and deemed allowable under HRA so let's not get sidetracked!

Stop trying to deflect

I think people should be able to have savings and claim benefits. You shouldn’t have to get yourself in a precarious situation financially before you claim benefits.
The amount you are ‘allowed’ to have and claim benefits is pitiable.

I agree with the poster you quoted.

What's good for the goose etc.

You can see why so many people want to be paid in cash...

But it’s necessary due to the current approach of paying interest gross of tax. Would you change that? The alternative would probably have to be 20% tax again and then a load of work for HMRC in dealing with individual requests for rebates.

I agree in principle. But you’re talking about two completely different approaches. Investigating high net worth individuals is going to be highly skilled labour intensive work.

Stopping this sort of widescale fraud would literally be a letter on day one of the legislation passing and half of them would remove themselves immediately.

I'm not terribly shocked as it seems to me any system is open to fraud and noone has suggested there is no fraud. This amounts to 9% who may have breachedd rules. But some of it might not be a breach so it might be a little lower.

so we still have 91% claiming within the rules so we still should design a system that supports the vast majority of claimants and not punish them because of others.

The tide has swung a long way on this, but I agree to some extent. The thresholds don't move with inflation either, which is self-evidently stupid.

The welfare system has become increasingly illogical resulting in higher costs and increased poverty.

For example home owners used to be able to claim mortgage support, now can only access a loan, which creates more problems down the track, resulting in more homes lost, resulting in higher costs for the state.

We do get a benefit fraud thread like clockwork on Saturdays though, I'm sure it's not coincidence!

I’m not surprised at all.

I might be misunderstanding how these checks will work. If someone wants to claim despite having funds that would make them ineligible, wouldn’t they have a “two sets of books” situation ie a separate account at a different bank to use for benefit payments?

Is there a central database for every account everyone has with any bank or other financial services?

Unless DWP can check everywhere people might have money squirrelled away I think the fraudsters will soon adapt.