Truly shocked by Tory bank trials for benefit claimants.

[caringcarer]

When Tory's suggested looking at people's bank accounts to stop benefit fraud I thought they might catch out just a few people so it would be pointless doing it. I've just seen this article in local press and I couldn't believe my eyes about the number of bank accounts having an average of £50k yet claiming UC or low income benefits fraudulently. It was a real eye opener. Anyone else shocked?

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/dwp-tries-bank-account-checks-29191387

It could be means tested by then - you might not get anything at all.

I have some sympathy for people who have been working and then lost their income, but still have savings, who do this - if they had recklessly spent all they earned, they would be entitled to low/no income benefits.

Obviously not everyone earns enough to save money, but the system seems to penalise saving for those who can afford it, while at the same time constantly moving the goalposts for pensions, which means people have to try to save for retirement.

Well well now here's a surprise.

Stories appear that are shocking 'proof' of widespread fraud, leading to increased support for benefits clampdown including moving from all cash to part vouchers part cash and suggesting scrutinising benefit claimants bank accounts in order to give them "budgeting advice". At first. Leading inevitably to an approved list of things benefits can be spent on. All while reports of what people are spending Your Tax Money on is playing in the background, sympathy decreases, judgement increases, Tories justify further clampdown and restrictions, old buildings are repurposed as places people can be housed when they can't provide for themselves.

people having savings, many of them likely to be pensioners perhaps having a bit put away to help their kids. You've said on previous threads that you gave your son tens of thousands for a house deposit. Do you not think that just maybe other people might want to do that too?

but this is simply not what benefits can be intended for.
You just can't generate sufficient tax income from a country that enables everyone to "put a bit away for their kids". That, like it or not, is the privilege of those who have been able to earn more than they have spent.

Oh come off it. If people are fiddling the system to the tune of billions of pounds, yes there should be clampdowns. Benefits are an economic support system, not an ideological sacred cow.

Agree

Many pensioners on pension credit are still on fixed assessment periods where they don't even need to declare if savings go up so the article is likely misleading anyway.

HMRC can (usually) find all your bank accounts to check you are paying all the tax you should. I assume a cross check on names and addresses (banks and building socs have to declare all interest paid to HMRC). If you use several names and various addresses you might get away with it, which is what the benefit crime gangs do. Also why it's much more difficult to open bank accounts, etc these days know your customer and all that.

Opening new accounts often require proof of address, proof of identity and sometimes NI number.

I did give my son money for a house deposit but I've not claimed benefits to do so. It was from my personal savings and lump sum from Teachers Pension I got at 60.

Yes, and pay tax on those earnings too.

If you genuinely cannot see what is actually behind this and where this is heading, you are spectacularly naive.

Where is it heading given they won’t be the government in 6 months?

Yes agreed but when the government put this 16k cap on savings it means that people who need to claim low income benefits can never save for a house deposit and are trapped with renting for years on end thus costing the government way more in having to help towards rent for years on end. There needs to be something in place to protect savings that are being saved towards a house deposit. It's very short sighted.

It was a big thing during the pandemic when a lot of people who thought they'd never need means tested benefits found their Help to Buy loans barred them. And then if they withdrew money from HtB they were penalised.

The other gotcha for a lot of them was the need for joint claims. Young people in newly minted coupledom, not yet at the point of joint accounts and all that jazz, found the need to support each other a shock.

I disagree. I am not prepared to pay taxes to pay beneto someone with more savings than me.

The whole point of savings is to have a cushion. It should be used when things get difficult.

Fraud is very prevalent. There are loads of people (mostly pensioners or those saving pip) that just think as pip is disregarded in the calculation they can let it build up. It’s actually very sad as these people are saving for old age, funerals, stair lifts, for when they get old(er). They seem to see benefit as a comfort blanket that might get ripped away. We don’t prosecute them them but they have to pay it back and it’s often more than the capital they had to start!

Of course there are others that take the piss.

I’m a fraud manager LA.

I'm an advisor and am very careful to make my clients aware of savings building up. I had one couple recently who were awarded £600 in Pension credit every four weeks ( both disabled) and I could see that unless their spending significantly increased they would soon build up 10k in savings. A lot of people don't even read the letters the DWP sends. When pensioners are already receiving £700 each every four weeks in PIP as this couple were, state pensions and all rent and council tax paid, it is easy to see how savings build up.

Yes we have to manage our sons accounts and how have to be scrupulous to remove all his expenditure on a weekly basis. Most of it is itemised via DRE calculations for social care etc but to be frank it’s all becoming a bit labour intensive.

I do wonder how this will be managed when we are dead - the whole finance thing.

When pensioners are already receiving £700 each every four weeks in PIP as this couple were, state pensions and all rent and council tax paid, it is easy to see how savings build up.

Blimey. Easy to see how savings build up?

I think it is wrong.

The boy got DLA which is not means tested but depends on needing regular/frequent attention and/or being unable or virtually unable to walk.

It’s very easy @Miley1967 and they live in poverty with all these savings. It can also make them very anxious. Some would be better off mentally without the money to be honest. It frightens them. They could use it for cleaners, gardeners, transport, heating costs etc. Make their lives so much easier- that’s what it’s for.

@Noras you can get a local authority appointee in place, but I don’t think they help you spend it as such. They’ll just notify the DWP to cancel benefits for a bit (so they’ll use savings to pay the rent etc) this then quickly eats into savings and brings them back into benefit.

I know. I just do notthink that the children of millionaires need it.

I can see where you're coming from but if you means test it then to be meaningful the cut off would be waaaay below millionaire level.