To say I am fucking elated that this bunch of charlatans are on there way out

[Doyouhonestlyexpectmetobelieve]

My God I hated Thatcjer and all she stood for .. but at least I think she was honourable in her beliefs even if they were not mine .. but THIS LOT .. from BOJO onwards what a bunch of grifters ..

And before anyone says 'they are all the same ' .. I really don't think so ... At least in the 'lining their own pockets ' agenda .. AIBU to think this ?

Thinking more specifically about the bursary issue.

Given that we don't have facts or details I've been letting my imagination work on this as others (including the Telegraph) obviously have.

I imagine that things will evolve.......as they did when Keir Starmer's school changed during his education there. A tailing off of things will allow pupils to remain in place and then changes will be phased in over time. Obviously my imaginings, but based on what has happened generally in the past (to Keir and others), not unreasonable imaginings.

Bursaries might be reduced, but, imagining things happen as they did last time Labour were in power - education generally will improve greatly. Between 1997 - 2010 we had -
Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools
Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18
Record number of students in higher education
2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres
Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants
Doubling of the number of apprenticeships
and
Free entry to national museums and galleries.

So overall, under Labour, across the much wider population education and opportunity for young people improved dramatically. So in my imagination - based on experience - over a short period changes will be made that will alter how things are done for the minority, but overall the vast majority will benefit from better educational opportunities.

I already hear you say, 'But who will fund that'.
It's a funny old world where many of us remember (and perhaps benefitted) from that period of investment in education and yet have more recently got so used to being told 'there's no money for the ordinary people'. What a trick they have played whilst heating their stables and building their indoor pools.

We have become accustomed to being treated like an expensive nuisance. Like second class citizens handed shoddy goods by a government who has 'more important' things to do with our money. There clearly is money available when pressed. Covid/HS2 etc proved that.

Education of the wider population ruddy well should be a priority or else all else fails and worsens over time. You don't need your imagination to see that happening now.

What is the Conservative plan for education?
What have the Conservatives done for education since 2010?
Do the Conservatives have past measures of success in education equal to the 1997 -2010 period?

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/ministers-withold-17m-from-five-safety-valve-councils/

It's a shame if some children have to move from one school to another because their parents can't avoid the price hike. However firstly the parents always knew there could be price hikes and could have budgeted for it.

Secondly on balance far more children will benefit than will suffer under a labour government.

So many children have to change schools for one reason or another. It's really not the end of the world. And definitely not worth a Tory vote!

It's really not worth keeping a small proportion of children in private ed for the sake of the rest of the children in the country.

How are DC in private schools disadvantaging state school kids? If anything it is the opposite: private parents pay for their place through tax but don't use it. It also eases the pressure on state schools.
How can parents plan ahead for VAT when up until 1 year ago it wasn't even a possibility? Of course we plan for yearly fee increases but these are approx 5-10% per year not 5-10% + 20% VAT.

Obviously they're not directly - it's the double whammy of money coming in from the VAT and more importantly all the advantages of a labour government in general.

I deliberately didn't say parents should have planned for VAT. Price hikes in general on the other hand...

Agree on both counts

I’ll come back to this but on this one

Given that we don't have facts or details I've been letting my imagination work on this as others

The IFS details the targeting of the funds, the pp was not using hyperbole nor imagining it

"private parents pay for their place through tax but don't use it."

So do childless couples.

I also pay for many services I don't use.

That's how general taxation works.

I notice how no one is suggesting the private school absorb some of the costs.

Teacher/pupil ratios in private schools are currently half that of state schools.

They could increase class sizes and still be well below state ratios.

But god forbid the golden education loses some of its sheen.

Your last line is my preference for improvement

Take advantage of falling rolls in state, increase funding pp and keep private as is

Smaller class sizes are a USP for private and we could use that in state as a plus.

So you want a proper funded state sector with smaller classes?

I don't think many people disagree with you there except for the Tory government.

Schools funding in 2024 will return, in real-terms, to levels last seen in 2010, meaning there has been no real-terms growth in 14 years.

Yep that’s what I want. I’d like Labour to drop the poor VAT policy and focus on that instead

Dargawn · 05/05/2024 08:40
I think we are all fed up with what we have but I don’t have much confidence that it will change”

I do but it will take time, two terms at least, there’s so much damage to reverse.
People need to be realistic in their expectations.

I am happy with them keeping the VAT policy and focus on that.

(edit to correct grammar)

Great 🤷‍♀️

Raising an extra £1.3–1.5 billion per year in the medium to long run that would allow for about a 2% increase in spending on schools in England, which Labour have proposed would be targeted at disadvantaged students sounds indeed good

(source IFS)

Indeed.

As I said earlier, private schools could easily reduce their rates by increasing class sizes and still be way below state schools ratios.

The reduced rate plus Vat is paid, meaning no increase in fees for the fortunate.

The Vat collected is targeted at the less fortunate.

Everyone's a winner.

But NO poster with children in private school is prepared to countenance this.

I wonder why.

Yes it does. A funded response, unlike the pp who wants to drop the vat and spend the money they haven't raised on state school kids. And the Tories say the labour policies aren't funded!

@AhNowTed. Exactly- until I was ill post covid I hadn't seen a doctor for 21 years, apart from some smear tests, nor been in hospital. I don't drive, for 'most ' people private school is a choice if you have the cash or choose to prioritise it , it's not a life essential -

The problem is that small class sizes are their USP (and starchy posh uniforms). Get rid of that and why would people choose private? In my experience it's not because the quality of teaching is higher. I know two private school near me that have unqualified teachers on staff. I trained with two people who failed their teaching qualification and then went on to get jobs in private schools.

They do tend to have better resources as well but that would also change if schools swallowed the costs.

I’m speaking from state school perspective

I’d like to focus on class sizes not try to fix falling rolls but see it as an opportunity for state

I don’t want children to be displaced, particularly not bursary or SEN

I doubt much will be raised at all. I get why Starmer is using it as a vote grabber, it taps into a psyche, sadly I think it’s not a the positive for students that a policy could be

I think Labour have a hard task on funding and this is a gimmick to paper over that

Funding is always an issue. More so if you have lots of rich friends with businesses that you need to keep on side. Funding is less of an issue if you're not giving millions to them, I guess.

Funding is indeed an issue when there has been no growth in 14 years

I don't want to children to be displaced either, especially the ones already in the state sector with nowhere to go.

Except the IFS report has now had holes blown in it by the ASI and EDK reports.
The realistic net amount will be 0.8-1 billion in the first year and then reduce over medium-long term as behaviour changes and pupils are pulled out at the natural breaking points.
Even the author of IFS now acknowledges that it was an overly optimistic report.

@EasternStandard personally and I say this as someone who isn't a Tory or Reform voter , it wouldn't have been my focal point too- I guess it's a concession to those more to the left - however the Tory's in my opinion do the same with the Rwanda thing- Far more sensible to get your processing in order, actually cooperate with the French and Belgians and get your refusals sorted early- I actually think Labour will manage this better, as they are less 'ya boo sucks to you' about cooperation - but I guess we shall see. Also actually get teams out there constantly inspecting visas in taxi companies, nail and beauty bars , takeaways , cafes etc - all often used for black market employment- when we lived in Denmark they were really hot on this- here it seems like the Wild West- no one gives a shit- so don't be suprised if you attract people who think they will be able to work and make money under the radar if they succeed in getting in. This is the thing with the Tory's in my view- not enough red tape in areas where it's needed and too much in areas it wasn't- Brexit itself (which I suspect you agree with) has actually caused a ton of red tape and more to come- plus price inflation and hasn't remotely stopped legal migration (just different kinds) and created a right old mess in many business that have Europe and US as major markets ( and yes it does affect sales to US due to informal rules the EU had in place under certain values) - certainly it killed our D2C mail order and meant we were more reliant on formal distribution- which is less margin and the risk of clients not paying. Actually under Labour there are some small advantages in being able to subsidise business etc - under the Tory's I see very little benefit at all to Brexit for most people, apart from the very wealthy and maybe tradesmen who are now fleecing people due to less competition for jobs from EU workers.

With regards to VAT, I certainly think if Labour do bring it in then there should be exemptions for certain pupils- sEN, those on bursaries over a certain amount etc ( but to be fair at most schools that's suprisingly few) -

I’m not surprised