Why is a conflict 2,200 miles away allowed to cause mayhem on UK streets?

[OneMerryRedSnail]

Shocking moment violent pro-Palestine mob attack workers outside Bradford kebab shop after owner 'refused to boycott Coca-Cola' amid claims soft drink giant 'profits from Israel's war in Gaza' | Daily Mail Online

@showmethegin "Yes? I have personally spoken to my MP about this issue for a number of years and have donated monthly to CAAT for about 3 years!"

Excellent.

Sky news have just said that the protests in London have cost £19 million upto now. £19 million spent on something which the UK has no real say in. They really need to stop now, what points can possibly be conveyed that hasn't already been?

I wonder how much the arms sales to the region have made?

No idea but what difference does that make?

Hmm, not sure, but you could ask US, Germany, Italy, and Canada for some figures 🤔

I suppose because you were suggesting that the cost to the country of being able to protest was too great. Some people see things in terms of freedom and doing what’s right and some are more focused on the £s. Either way it’s important to consider the wider implications not just focus on one aspect.

What's viewed as right is subjective. We have children not getting an education, people waiting for cancer treatment, more people than ever using food banks, shortage of housing, homelessness etc here now in this country. All of these things need alot more than £19million to fix but that amount of money wouldn't hurt. Why waste it and more policing a protest about something we can't change?

Some do think about wider aspects but I doubt you'll agree with their concerns. Eg Israel is our ally, Palestine isn't recognised, Hamas is deemed a terrorist organisation and no good has come from us getting involved in the Middle East previously. Rather than wasting money on something we can't change we could sped it here on things that could make a difference. £19 million would change things massively where I live.

What if the “getting involved in the Middle East” is actually a net gain for the UK financially? Would you then be fine with people protesting?

What's right is indeed subjective.

Some people think democracy is important. The right to protest is fundamental to this, but it comes with a price tag.

Some people are not very bothered about democracy and would choose to prioritise other things because they don't want to incur the costs associated with that approach to government.

I see the dire situation that our public services are in, and of course, I want them to have every last penny that is available. However, not at the cost of people's right to protest - whether I agree with that protest or not.

If the government was really worried about the cost of policing the protests taking away from essential services such as the NHS and education, they wouldn't be proposing tax cuts right now.

These protests have been done weekly already, it isn't as though the opportunity hasn't been given. All these protests are accomplishing is cost, intimidation and inconvenience week in week. There are genocides and other horrific things happening all over the world. Throwing good money after bad on these is just a waste now.

@TomeTome I agree with the right to protests. I just think this protest has been done over and over, it isn't change anything just waste money.

So what do you propose is the solution?

People are continuing to protest because the issues that they are protesting about haven't been resolved. They have a democratic right to carry on protesting for as long as they feel it's necessary. It isn't for you to decide whether it's a waste or not, if the protesters still feel that it is worthwhile.

Are you suggesting that the protests should be banned now that the protesters have had their opportunity? Because that's a very slippery slope in my view.

I do understand that democracy can be really annoying at times. Other people often do stuff that we don't necessarily agree with. But you take away those democratic rights at your peril... one day it might be you that feels the need to protest.

Yes, you think it has been done. But the protesters are not done with protesting because the killing in Palestine hasn't stopped. Do you really expect them to roll over and say "oh well, at least we tried"?

It doesn't matter whether you (or I) agree with them or not. If they don't like the status quo, they have the right to express that view... over and over and over again if they see fit. All of us have that right.

Clearly it isn't just me given this was being discussed on the news. It seems there is a proposal to implement two week notice for large scale demonstrations because of this, the cost and the police needed. These particular protests are being used as a reason to change laws limiting our right to protest. Protesting for protest sake which is what this is, is a waste. Apart from intimidating mps when protests are held outside their homes, what can these accomplish? Nothing, I seriously doubt hamas and Israel will take any notice either of the protests or of a ceasefire vote in HoP.

If the protesters want to protest repetitively why not let the organisers foot the bill?

You want organisers to foot the bill? So people should only have the right to protest if they can afford it? Another slippery slope right there...

Once again, I would point out that it is not for you to decide that other people's protests are pointless or wasteful. That is for them to decide.

What does that even mean, protesting for protests sake?

It blows my mind that you hear MPs saying "there's too many protests nowadays, let's restrict the right to protest", rather than think, oh a lot of people are angry about x issue or y issue, why don't we speak to them and see what's going on and actually REPRESENT the people.

Firstly maybe they represent people who don't agree with what is being protested about or they represent people who have other priorities and want them to concentrate on those. Just because x amount of people are angry about something doesn't mean the majority of people are. Maybe the majority of people are being represented. I wonder if you'd feel the same if it was weekly protests by the national front or whatever right wing group was costing so much.

It isn't up to me to decide but I can have my views and my view is that the money would be better spent elsewhere.

By protesting for protesting sake, I'm referring to the fact that the protest wont make a difference.

Of course you have a right to your views. You can go out and protest against people having the right to protest if you wish.

If people have other priorities that they want the government to focus on instead, they have the right to protest about these issues in order to make their views heard.

If the National Front or equivalent was out protesting every weekend, then of course I wouldn't like it, but as long as their protests stayed within the boundaries of the law, I wouldn't be arguing for their right to protest to be curtailed - I would be out on the streets in a counter-protest. Either you believe in free speech and the right to protest or you don't... you can't agree with it only for causes that you think are "worthy".

Anyway, it still isn't clear as to what you actually want anyone to do about the Palestine protests. If you just want to rant and say that they're expensive and a waste of time, then fair enough, but do you actually want action to be taken to limit or stop them? If so, then what?

Clearly that decision isn't for me but for the home office/ government and it looks like they are looking at doing domething about it. The article below actually says £30 million has been spent so far.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/28/protesters-could-have-to-give-police-more-notice-marches/

I want the protests to stop. I think they cause too much trouble, too much division, intimidation and waste too much money.

Yes, I get that you want the protests to stop. You don't like this particular expression of democracy. You're entitled to have that opinion.

Whether the government will actually do anything about it is a different question. I suspect that they probably won't - they'll just carry on complaining about the protests to whip up frustration amongst people like you because they perceive that you'll be politically useful to them.

Of course, I might be wrong. The Tories might go down the anti-democratic route. I suspect a lot of their back benchers would be very anxious about this though.

The UK sold £48m of arms to Israel last year alone. And you're upset with £19m to police protests that are a core democratic right?

I am sick to the back teeth of MPs completely ignoring the will of the people that put them there. 72% of the UK were calling for a ceasefire at last poll count (bearing in mind that was a few months ago so I'd expect that to be higher) and the MPs we have voted in to represent our interests clearly aren't. The vast vast majorities of countries in the world are calling for a ceasefire too.

You might be able to be apathetic about what is going on in Gaza and the West Bank but I cannot. Nor can many other millions of people in this country. I would rather be a nuisance to people fed up about hearing about a genocide than be a person sitting with my head in the sand.

And when you talk about division, please be aware that this is intentional in the way the government and the press are talking about these marches.

I've been on several and I've marched alongside people of all faiths (I'm atheist myself), races and ages. It's the most united I've felt in a long time. I haven't seen any disturbance or violence or intimidation.

Why shouldn't we sell arms go Israel, they are our allie?

How can the UK get a ceasefire? Seriously what do you want the UK to do?

Not related to the protest issue, because that's a question of democracy over and above any other factors.

But out of interest, @Baileyscream, do you think Israel's ongoing military action in Gaza is acceptable?

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves I think any loss of innocent life is a waste, I think the Palistinians had a terrible standard of living before the conflict and now they have less than nothing. Hopefully theyll rebuild without Hamas. I don't know what else Israel can do though in response, they can't do nothing or allow Hamas to continue and there is no way to distinguish Hamas from ordinary people, families want the hostages returned and people held to account for what happened in October and they want to be sure that won't happen again. Even if there is an immediate ceasefire the issues won't be solved and won't just dissappear. If Hamas want this to end they could hand all the hostages over, give all the people that took part in October's attack up for prosecution and remove themselves from power but this won't happen either. I would think as a start giving the hostages back in front of the world's press would put considerable pressure on Israel.

I truly dont understand what people want the UK/ our government to do about it. We shouldn't be policing the world. I also don't know why this should get special attention/ more money/ more consideration over the other horrific things happening around the world or at home here in the UK and Europe.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves I've answered your question now will you answer mine please? What do you want the UK government to do? What do you think they can do that would change anything ad not disrupt our standing relationships with our allies or drag us into a conflict?