Does Labour have an antisemitism problem?

[HateItWhenABitchLetsHimselfSlide]

I'm a lifelong Labour voter. I'm already weary of voting for them again this year because of their hatred of women who won't pretend men can be women. I know they had antisemitism problems under Corbyn, but I thought they'd mostly been solved under Starmer. Especially after Luciana Berger rejoined last year. (She was my MP before she resigned).

But now after this latest thing with a Rochdale MP that Starmer has continued to back I don't know how I could possibly still vote for them. He suggested that Israel allowed Hamas’s 7 October attacks to take place to provide grounds to invade Gaza.

Then who do I vote for? I'd never vote Tory, Greens and Lib Dems (traitors) are completely down the TWAW rabbit hole. There's no one left.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/12/labour-criticised-for-backing-rochdale-candidate-after-offensive-israel-remark

[Towerofsong]

It's very depressing, I was thinking about it this morning.

A lot of the antisemites have also moved to Greens. And Lib Dems...what do they actually stand for?

[whiteroseredrose]

I think they probably do.

Whether the voters actually care about it is a different matter.

[FindingMeno]

Imo opinion there was no anti-semetism problem with Corbyn.
More an anti-Corbyn PLP problem.

[aitchteeaitch]

They are all as bad as each other in one way or another, and the only option left is to vote for the one whose policies offend you the least.

Or do as I do, and vote Monster Raving Loony. At least their manifesto is clear and to the point.

[BarelyLiterate]

It’s not just Labour. Anti-semitism is rife across all left wing groups in British politics. The worldview of these groups is based fundamentally on identity politics and a binary division of the world into ‘The Oppressor’ vs ‘The Victim’. Oppressors are hated, victims are defended, irrespective of the actual realities of the situation.

Everything & everyone is assigned one of these roles. In the Middle East, Israel is cast as the oppressor & Palestine as the victim. No nuance is permitted to challenge this division. Israel is not a democracy, it is an ‘apartheid state’. Hamas are not murderous terrorists. They are, by definition, victims. The Israeli civilians who were slaughtered on 7th October were not ordinary people, they were, by definition, oppressors.

[CantDealwithChristmas]

Yes, on the left wing of the Labour party. This is because:

1. Antisemitism is a feature, not a bug, of socialism. Marx said Jews were [ugly insect word I won't spell out] who controlled the strings of global capitalism and enslaved the proletariat (Das Kapital). He also said in his Letters to Engels that the Jews manufacture and fake their own persecution in order to get pity and therefore to get what they want (this is the old antisemitic myth that Ali was riffing off when he said that Israel let 7/10 happen in order to "do what they bloody wanted" in Gaza).
2. There is a strand of fundamentalist Islam (NOT the view of the VAST majority of the world's Muslims) which is antisemitic. Fundamentalists can find backing for this view in the Quran and Hadiths. Of course, this is an outmoded view of Islam which can only be seen in the context of Islam's early years. Just as fundamentalist Christians can find justification for antisemitism and misogyny in the Bible - but vast majority of modern moderate Christians hold no truck with it and leave it in history where it belongs. Nevertheless, it is there for fundamentalist nutters to find, and sadly held up by Hamas' stated aims for Israel (destroy it).
3. Labour is reliant on the Muslim vote in areas like Rochdale, Tower Hamlets, Bradford etc etc

So what we've ended up with is an ugly combination of Marxist-socialist antisemitism and fundamentalist-religious antisemitism and this combination has been taken up eagerly by the educated-beyond-their-abilities middle class graduates which now make up the core of the activist wing of the Labour party (older working class women like me having abandoned Labour long ago).

Hence the problem. A difficult one for Starmer to solve. He's being brave in confronting it but there's only so far he can go without hemoragghing members.

[achangewoulddougood]

Tentative post wondering if this is the post in "active" about the fact they've withdrawn support?

[Coyoacan]

As per usual, people who are against genocide are being called Antisemitic by the Zionists. Stop using Jews as human shields

[EasternStandard]

Yes but it also has a faction problem

[Bristolian79]

Omg @BarelyLiterate excellent comment. This is what I've been trying to put into words for ages, exactly this! Perfectly put 👏

[TizerorFizz]

It is clear the direction of a political party can drive people with unpalatable beliefs underground but it cannot irradiate them. We just don’t have a tolerant society and this is mirrored by MPs. Right or left.

On the radio this morning many callers questioned why Gaza and Middle East politics was an issue at this election. It’s patently obvious that some of the electorate in Rochdale are very interested and it’s identity and religion. Something many white and CofE folk just don’t see. Labour wanted the Muslim vote. They clearly saw this as important but seemed oblivious to the fact that anti Jew rhetoric is very close to the surface. Just telling folk they are not wanted in the Labour Party just pushes them underground and paying lip service. Ali was one of these.

[HateItWhenABitchLetsHimselfSlide]

@Coyoacan

As per usual, people who are against genocide are being called Antisemitic by the Zionists. Stop using Jews as human shields

??

[PrawnDumplings]

@Coyoacan

As per usual, people who are against genocide are being called Antisemitic by the Zionists. Stop using Jews as human shields

Yep.

[PrawnDumplings]

Starmer's wife is Jewish. he's not antisemitic.

Disagreeing with the genocide is not antisemitic.

Just. Stop.

[HateItWhenABitchLetsHimselfSlide]

@PrawnDumplings

Starmer's wife is Jewish. he's not antisemitic.

Disagreeing with the genocide is not antisemitic.

Just. Stop.

Please do quote where I said being against the war is antisemitic, I'll wait.

[BeaRF75]

Yes. And it's not going away. Sadly.

[PeridotSparkle]

It's not antisemitic to want Israel to stop killing thousands of children.

Why shouldn't Labour court the Muslim vote? That's not antisemitic either.

[Hijinks75]

Starmer is clearly trying to stamp out this problem, but as the events this week have shown, he hasn’t managed. I still have huge concerns about labour and what there policies actually are, all I’ve seen is slating every Tory policy but not actually saying how they would fix things

[MrsSkylerWhite]

Some members will be, as will some members of every party. I’ll be voting for them. The tories are anti-everyone but wealthy people.

[Barleypilaf]

I find it very suspicious how many of these anti-Labour posts there are on mumsnet. It is very reminiscent of the pro-Brexit posters who appeared during the campaign and vanished the morning after the referendum.

[lightinthebox]

Isn’t this the MP who was saying the war should stop? Perhaps read what has been said before assuming. Being anti war isn’t anti semitic.

[EasternStandard]

@Barleypilaf

I find it very suspicious how many of these anti-Labour posts there are on mumsnet. It is very reminiscent of the pro-Brexit posters who appeared during the campaign and vanished the morning after the referendum.

Haha yes nothing to see here when it comes to antisemitic conspiracy in Labour..

Funny

[ilovesooty]

@Barleypilaf

I find it very suspicious how many of these anti-Labour posts there are on mumsnet. It is very reminiscent of the pro-Brexit posters who appeared during the campaign and vanished the morning after the referendum.

It's always former Labour Party members or lifelong Labour voters as well.

I believe that the Conservative Mayor of Salisbury has been suspended from the Party for anti semitism this week. It exists in other parties too.

[EasternStandard]

Labour on here not noticing Rochdale

Bit too real