Uk totally messed up - is anything good?

[tallcurvey]

The UK is an utter mess.
i can’t think of a single thing that is better than a decade ago.

when will people wake up and see brexit and the current government have ruined the country?

is their anything that’s better?

One of the worst things about Brexit was Johnson kicking out any even vaguely sane Tory, your Ken Clarkes and your Rory Stewarts, and replaced them with Ukip-lite nutters like Mad Nads and JRM. Lee Anderson and Jonathan Gullis are cartoon characters.

Absolutely. Anybody moderate or rational was expelled and you're left with people who are a combination of psychopathic and power hungry, extreme ideological nutters, or just very thick.

@midgetastic You can choose to live in another country.

You'll need to sort visas and in some countries have a firm offer of a job to go to but it is absolutely do-able and probably better than staying in the UK if you don't like the country.

It's all shit, I agree. Guardian today says schools are making redundancies because of funding, and they were already cut to the bone. Roads are like Romania. The NHS is buggered. Local Authorities bankrupt. Brexit is a shambles.

It isn't because we jumped on to the Russian war, or because we stuck our noses into Israel. It isn't because if covid. The whole world had that. It might partly be because of criminals like Liz Truss chucking billions down the pan, because the Tories can't put their hands on anything without squeezing a profit out of it for their mates, because of the endless daily rates paid to the hundreds in the House of Lords, And a hundred other things that could have been done more competently.

I think things will get tough

Not yet but mners might be glad they’re here

'Brexit was the result of a national vote, No matter what you or I think of the outcome, we are a democracy and I have to accept that.'

most people have now realised there was NOTHING democratic about the Brexit vote. Lies, more lies, disinformation, false promises, and outside interference. And most people know that the Electoral Commission would have cancelled the Brexit result, had the vote been official rather than advisory. NOT democratic at all.

Which country by the way, has not had to cope with the terrible war in Ukraine and Covid?

I actually think it’s partly our fault tbh. The general public doesn’t like being told the truth I don’t think so politicians studiously avoid telling us what we don’t want to hear.

No public sector employees your pensions aren’t actually affordable
No you can’t have a household with only one adult working part time in a 4 person hosuehold and expect the same standard of living as a dual income couple (this example was someone on mumsnet)
No you can’t be retired for 30 years, we can’t afford it
No the NHS can’t look after you properly we can’t afford it
No getting a degree isn’t in everyones best interest, some people are better off going straight into work (I’ve met builders who have created businesses worth millions so it’s not snobbery)

The whole of the west is in managed decline, even Germany is in recession.
Nowhere is great atm. We have an aging population, not enough people economically active, no willingness to just be honest and say you can’t tax every single penny out of people who are a bit wealthier than you (remember all those MP’s suddenly deciding they weren’t rich it’s people on 75k plus who are rich), a lack of honesty about how inefficient we are a lack of honesty about the fact that we are at some point probably going to have to start paying for a bit of our own healthcare at some point.

No-one wants to hear it. Completely agree the tories have made a shitshow of things but we have systemic problem of having too many things to pay for and not enough money being generated. This was inevitable for many countries even before COVID and before Ukraine. You just have to look at the debt to GDP ratios across eurozone countries.

Blair basically carried on what Thatcher started, he just spent a lot more on public services.

The neoliberal consensus has led to many of the issues we face.

In general I think people in UK are more interested in their health than they were 40 years ago. I think it started in the 80's with gyms and keep fit VHS and then lulled in the 90's, coming back in 00's with yoga/meditation revival and on until we've all been to therapy at least once (well, women anyway) and now the younger generation is apparently shunning booze and fags. This is despite the govt still glorifying alcohol and not fully regulating the fast food industry. You could argue the younger generations have lived with the failing NHS for their entire lives and have wisely decided they do not want to have to rely on it.

Champagne taste, beer budget. Britain is small c Conservative country with an ageing population that is just starting to cop on that 40 years of neoliberal politics isn't too good when you are old because zilch public services and reliance on a stagnant income is a ticket to a poor end.

The turn around will not be quick; a decade of work at least. It's not inevitable Britain is a powerful or well resourced country- we've made decisions in the last decade to do precisely the opposite.

Yeah there are issues and life is shit for millions

BUT

It isn't the winter of discontent

It isn't 1914-8 or 1939-45

There's no plague, no cardboard city, no 3 million unemployed, globally one of the highest GDPs per capita and life expectancy.

We just like complaining.

Well arguably anybody who was paying attention has made out like a bandit. I now do have private medicine and schooling. I didn't before. You can only go to do many places before you realise things are shagged and they won't get better in time for your children.

I am currently on a mini holiday with in a European city with 3 friends and all of us have said in comparison the UK is now a non functioning toilet .

It pains me to say it but more and more the appeal of moving abroad is attractive .

This is somewhat simplistic. The very wealthy (rightly) contribute by far the highest proportion of tax. They also leave if they are taxed too much. Their leaving hurts the economy significantly - the 70s being a case in point.

Couldn't agree more

Everything here. Well said.
I’m not sure why it’s difficult for folks to admit BOJO, Farage & their ilk got us here but he, BOJO is writing for the lying dailymail that sold the country the BREXIT lies & earning so much money.
it’s unbelievable. I sometimes wonder if this truly is the UK or some third world country.

@Noicant I'm left of centre but agree with that- having lived in Copenhagen for almost 2 years 2020 to 2022 I will say it could very well be a bit more like that but to be frank everyone would have to pay considerably more tax and there would have to be a£14 an hour minimum wage. It had much higher wages generally, high tax, no NI, great pensions, no council tax and childcare at £260 a month- most couples worked full time too or as near as- it's a different mentality- I actually saw very few mums out with small kids in the week - certainly beyond a year old. There didn't seem this idea of let's do 12 hours a week and claim - even with single parents. Not saying it's right or wrong just different- but they certainly appear wealthier and stuff works!!

The impact of the super wealthy leaving the UK is thought to not be that significant. It is used to beat fear into politicians but it's different times than the 70s. Most of the super wealthy money is saved and spent abroad. They wouldn't leave their business interests if profitable and these are predominantly global. House prices may take a bit of a tumble on mansions but that would be only to the detriment of the wealthy. Direct and indirect employees would suffer (usually estimated around 15,000 people). But it would be worth it financially as most people in a higher tax bracket would not leave. Also ignoring the super rich, many of whom don't pay tax properly anyway (hello Rishi and your dodgy non Dom status), many wealthy folk are happy to pay more tax.
I personally am happy for them to leave and reduce their income decision makers who are swayed to protect the rich so that they keep donating to the political parties, or giving them freebies. Johnson was absolutely renowned for accepting basic bribes in holidays and free accommodation.

Funnily enough I’m listening to an item on Nom Doms and Labour potentially changing the policy

Ha no surprise there. Just the terrible VAT one to go

The obesity epidemic suggests otherwise.

@AndThatWasNY absolutely agree-

I note also that there is big issue about the quality of who goes into politics. Look at the Labour candidate for Rochdale who spouts an actual conspiracy theory to his colleagues on Israel permitting a massacre of its own people for political purposes.

I am a leftie but I am totally repelled by this idiot and that he should have been chosen above many others to represent Rochdale; why him? Not only does he does he say something antisemitic, he says in a political meeting, and it's a conspiracy theory.

What kind of confidence would anyone have in such s man to represent of the UK and all his constituents. For me it would be zero. And the Labour Party unlike the Conservatives has many people to choose from. They could easily do better but have chosen this contemptible idiot. Clearly he is incompetent.

Obesity is a pandemic. My point was that people in UK seem to be taking their health in general more seriously than they did 40 yrs ago. I did also mention the govt does not properly regulate the food industry, but there are many factors that contribute to the global obesity crisis.

My point was that IF people are taking their health more seriously, they'd make more effort not to be obese!

i agree from the point of view of domestic policy. PFI might have been started under Thatcher but took off and perhaps in a different direction under Blair. Because of the mismatch in negotiation skills it became in some respects and immoral waste of public money.

But I was talking about foreign policy. Which is a tad different. In terms of how much choice your average PM would have.

But even a venn diagram of tory vs labour domestic policy, i think there'd be a lot of overlap in the middle, and not because of shared ideology.