Is Keir Starmer too boring to be prime minister?

[Tulipsroses]

I was reading an article in the Spectator this morning. Interesting to hear what people think.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-keir-starmer-too-boring-to-be-prime-minister/

I laughed at the bluntness so at least there’s that

The caring vibe won’t last long when you have various groups demanding more and no extra funding. Caring and saying no together.. maybe people will be as forgiving as on this thread about saying nothing at all

I’m not - but as you said, it’s a very blue place so if they field a “decent” candidate anyone else would struggle. The Labour candidate selected recently has been doing a lot of campaigning and seems very credible.

It would help the Tories if their parliamentary party could agree with each other. The different factions are fighting like rats in a sack and airing their dirty linen in public. What’s that saying? Never interfere with an enemy while he’s in the process of destroying himself.

What I find so hard to understand, is why you think the Tories - who have legislated to allow this situation to happen - are the answer in future?

The main issue in their party is they are completely split now. They do not know what they want to do about the HRA, about the ECHR, about anything really. They have fudged this issue for a long time, and been very disingenuous about their 'plans' which have all resulted in nothing.

IMO they are happy to run down the clock on issues like this because they can't get a coherent plan through the parliamentary party.

Labour will fight, they’ve just been out of power so long it hasn’t been as relevant.

Gaza, picket lines both recent, off shore processing now a suggestion. Not all will have same views on that. There will be more

What I find so hard to understand is why those on the left assume that a refusal to vote for Labour means that it's a vote for the Tories.

I'm not voting for either actually. Or LDs or Green.

Although sadly for us the one thing they do go authoritarian on is gender

So not as much challenge for sex based rights

The disagreements in the Tory party are fundamental and deep.

Yes Labour will have policy debates, as they did under Blair - remember Corbyn's lot were always popping up then too. But small factions are not the issue.

Currently the Tories are so ideologically split. They threw off a lot of moderates at the last election but that has made their party much less appealing electorally. They do not know whether to go centre-right, one-nation or to go full Braverman. They can't do both at the same time.

Brexit was a useful sticking plaster to keep the two sides together but it was always discussed pre-2016 that if/once the referendum went their way, the splits would worsen not improve.

I live in a UK country with a Labour government whose leader stated ages ago that trans women are women and trans men are men.

My life has changed not one jot so far as a result of that statement.

Yes, that is a good point @NoWordForFluffy - I do not know how you intend to vote and made my remarks based on an assumption - based on how conversations often go!

So I retract the 'why you think' and replace with 'why some think'.

Labour will face the same issues. They know it hence throwing out the offshore processing line over Christmas. It won’t resolve it but they probably can’t within their scope.

As for divergence I’ll take Kemi speaking up for women over Duffield cast out and adherence to gender or else

You’re in a privileged position to not have been affected by this, surely you can recognise that not all women are as lucky as you are to not have been affected “a jot”.

Do you think some of the most vulnerable women in society - those in prisons or domestic violence shelters or psychiatric wards or care homes - may feel differently to you?? They are the ones likely to be most affected by such flippant statements as “trans women are women and trans men are men.”

It's not saying it, is it? It's when they are are lining up to vote on a bill about the relationship between sex and women in a reality defying act of misogyny.

Claiming Labour policy disagreements are in any way comparable to the Tory situation demonstrates a total lack of understanding about what is going on in the Tory party, which is fundamental and about the future ideological direction of the party (after they lose the next election, which they currently expect to do).

Not really. Any party will struggle with the pressures of asylum. Hence Starmer’s recent shift to offshore processing. It won’t do much and they’ll face the same issues as anyone in power over the same period.

The difficulty of how to approach it doesn’t just disappear.

It won’t do much and they’ll face the same issues as anyone in power over the same period

But will he announce the policy kindly, with a tear in his eye? That's the main thing.

😬 absolutely. Or that rabbit in headlights look

Have to agree to disagree I think @EasternStandard as I'm not sure we are approaching the question from the same starting point.

Just to restate the difference, what to do about asylum is a policy level disagreement. Policy level disagreements are standard in all political parties. There is always a fudge if all parties agree on basic principles.

The Tory party's future position on the political spectrum is an ideological question. That is very different, it underpins everything and will be much more difficult to resolve.

I don’t see this as particularly problematic. They clearly have survived in power despite this over the last few decades, only Blair and he was very centre. The left of Labour and centre have their own ideological differences anyway.

They seem to agree on what the outcome is wanted, the major differences come down to how. That is incredibly tough as there’s no easy way to fix it - this applies to many countries and we’ll see it across the EU

I don’t think Labour are any more together, just out of power for a long time so we haven’t seen clashes. Centre and to the left have their differences

As I said in an earlier post, there are issues to be addressed, but it can be done. It will mean compromise. Being completely hostile to trans people is not the answer.

I actually think the main issue is, as always, ensuring predatory men don't take advantage.

Without a trace of irony.

I don’t think Labour are any more together Anyone thinking this is either kidding themselves or not very observant!

The Tories are split split split with no resolution in sight.

Please explain the irony? If you mean the part about predatory men, well yes, I know predatory men have and still are trying to take advantage. That's why I said I think the main issue is preventing that happening.

Observing what? They haven’t been in power for a long time

Of course it’s easier from the opposition

And yes they also have ideological differences- left of party to right. You can’t have missed that?

Observing what? UK politics since 1992.