Can we talk about Labour's plans?

[PaddingtonsSarnie]

There's been so much despair about the Tory tax cuts this week. For those who would consider voting Labour at the next GE but have yet to decide. What do you think of this new policy idea?

In a nutshell they propose getting the UK to an entirely self sufficient state and net zero by the end of the decade. Permanently lowering bills, zero reliance on other countries (eg dictatorships) for our energy and also creating thousands of jobs.

I think it sounds pretty bloody sensible and I actually feel excited about this prospect. The first time I've felt excited about any policies from anyone for years. It is so much more forward looking than Trussenomics and would actually benefit ordinary people and families instead of just the highest earners.

Also this is what we should be focussing on as the main issue, rather than all the culture wars etc. in my opinion. This is the stuff that actually affects peoples everyday lives.

Quote pasted below and link to full article for anyone who's interested.

Keir Starmer will pledge to deliver a new era of economic growth and permanently lower energy bills by turning the UK into an independent green “superpower” before 2030, through a massive expansion of wind and solar energy.
Announcing details of the plan exclusively to the Observer, the Labour leader says he will double the amount of onshore wind, triple solar and more than quadruple offshore wind power, “re-industrialising” the country to create a zero carbon, self-sufficient electricity system, by the end of this decade.
Starmer says the move – far more ambitious than any green policy advanced by the Tories and the most far-reaching of his leadership so far – would release the British people from the mercy of “dictators” such as Russian president Vladimir Putin over energy bills.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/24/keir-starmer-unveils-green-growth-plan-to-counter-liz-trusss-tax-cuts?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Not a chance would I vote Labour.

Promising. If they support the recommendations of the Cass review when it comes then they have won me.

I saw something earlier about their manifesto excluding both introduction of PR & any change on Brexit?
Those 2 things, plus their passion for self-ID, would currently keep me from voting for them, regardless of any green initiatives.
(I’m in a safe Tory seat anyway so will just be spoiling my ballot 🤷🏼‍♀️ Pragmatically, the result will be determined by a minority of voters in a minority of seats)

Green energy? As in Germany, where the energy costs are the highest ( adjusted for currency) in Europe, and where they have re opened the coal fired power stations and stopped mothballing the nuclear power stations because their industry was being paralysed by high energy costs and unavailability ?
But of course it will be different in UK , because ????

It's a great policy. I will vote Labour at the next election (local and general).

Yep this is where a lot of people are - politically homeless. I get that the tories are a shit show but losing the existential right to protections afforded to biological women is a huge deal. And once it’s gone, and women really wake up to what this erosion actually means for the safety and dignity and quality of life for girls and women it’ll be too late.

As a woman, I won’t vote for them until they state officially that they know a woman is an adult human female.

I feel like I am missing something here. People say I should be worried. I have read into it but still I just don't get it.

I’m not happy with the identity stuff

but would rather vote Labour than see the Tory party assets strip further and have no country left

I’d have to see the detail but it certainly sounds interesting!

This.

They've got some clear plans now and Starmer has been good at the conference.

Much more what you'd expect from a very proficient lawyer who can make a good case.

I'm looking forward to hearing more of their policies. We do need growth in this country and we need self sufficiency - especially now we are out of the EU.

It's much better to spend billions on future projects that will improve our country than on longing the pockets of Tory donors.

You should be worried. If we continue to allow the online world to dominate the ‘real world’ and Twitter gets to legislate policy we may as well get off this sphere right now.

Identity politics for me as well. I would love to vote for Labour but TWAW etc and the belief in fantasy make me terrified.

Pop over to the feminism pages and the discussions on sex and gender if you need to learn more.

I don’t think Labour would actually implement any TWAW stuff. They say it to keep their student voters happy, but I think they would just kick the can down the road if they won and actually got their red wall voters back. They know the red wall hate woke identity politics.

Both parties are a mess. Truss now wants to continue importing from abroad to plug the labour shortage. Sorry, but no. There are plenty of lazy gits in this country that are incentivised by the state to do naff all and not contribute to the economy.

I was a Tory voter. Now I prefer to sit on the fence and watch the world burn.

I am firmly GC and in the past Labour's stance on TWAW and self ID would have made me very, very reluctant to give them my vote.

However I am so utterly horrified by what the Tories are doing to this country that identity politics is not a hill that I am currently willing to die on.

This is also where I'm at. I also have seen their report on upping rape conviction and DV conviction so i know they will right for woman's rights.

I often think Starmer is still in his human rights frame of mind when he talks about TWAW. Im hoping they get a much better stance of that over the next few years. TWATW.

If that’s his plan I am voting. First time ever labour voter. Not a Tory but a floater who has voted Tory the last decade and this new Tory party has failed us.

What else are they planning? I would like us to be self sufficient on food for the basics too. We should have greenhouses lined up on the coast like they do in the Netherlands.

Childcare help, raise the lower threshold tax? What are they doing for average income families?

And how are they helping small local business and independent startups? VAT threshold? Special relief incentives on retained earnings for small companies to ensure they are sustainable and have backing for future shocks/ growth? Employers NI relief for small businesses to promote hiring and growing jobs?

Honestly so pissed off as well. Think even I would have done a better job than this idiotic pair and that’s saying something as know fuck all about macro economics.

@pastaandpesto "I am firmly GC and in the past Labour's stance on TWAW and self ID would have made me very, very reluctant to give them my vote. However I am so utterly horrified by what the Tories are doing to this country that identity politics is not a hill that I am currently willing to die on."

This is where I'm at.

I get that people feel strongly about self ID etc but do they really feel that single issue is more important and urgent than the environment, climate change, the energy crisis, the economy and all those who are struggling...

Net zero by end of decade and permanently lower prices are juxtaposition. Going net zero is very very expensive. It means slapping high green taxes on energy use to discourage use. Everyone getting rid of petrol and delete cars and buying electric ones. I for one can't afford an electric car. Government would have to invest vast be amounts to get more charging points to cover everyone in country using electric cars. Everyone would have to scrap to heir combi boiler and get very expensive heat pump. Where is the £25-30k for every household to do that coming from?

What do you think will be the cost of not doing anything about climate change?

Do you accept that climate change is real or are you a denier? And do you think that we need to make changes in how we use energy or do you think we should all just carry on as we are?

I have many a times it just doesn't feature up here in the 'red wall'. I have tried to understand it. I just don't ior have ever had a problem with it.

We have gender neutral toilets at school as well as male and female without incident so far.

Forget net zero via reduction. Hardly any one uses energy for the fun of it. There are other ways to get there via offsetting and sustainable energy. The single biggest carbon event that happens twice a year globally is the shaving of the planets plant cover during harvest. We need to invest in agriculture. Use cover crops. Incentivise green agriculture. Green urban areas. Planning conditions. Big ethos change.

If we try to get to net zero via reduction it’s never going to happen. Aim for net zero via positive interventions and by the time we get their naturally we will be a carbon sink.

Its 2022. We are capable. We need to start saying we can do this, we can do xyz. Not we can’t do abc. It’s a mindset shift.

And what do we do about India, China the US and Australia who make up over 50% of global
emissions and plan on doing precisely fuck all to combat climate change? In fact China right now are building more a load more facilities to pump fossil fuels into the environment.