The Westminster Arms

[DustyDiamond]

Shiny new thread 😍😍

The Westminster Arms:
A non-partisan politics pub-thread for varied political chit-chat & other such stuff

Cheers all 🍷

😂Copper

I find that surprising as I thought on earlier Arms threads most posters agreed with TM’s deal, preferred it to no deal, and were angry at Parliament for blocking it?

Absolutely not, Limited. What on earth gave you that idea? I absolutely loathed Theresa's appalling deal. In fact, I kept plaguing my MP with detailed emails setting out my objections and asking her to reject it.

Anyway, Theresa's deal is old news. The Brexit Arms is old news.

That was then. This is now.

So all leavers on here would prefer no deal WTO terms to agreeing LPF commitments if non agreement is insurmountable for the EU?

Ummm yes, that why we left the EU, it would be idiocy to let them dictate a LPF.

No leavers left here anymore, we are all just proUK

In failing to understand the point of the question.

Especially the '' come come '' part?

What is the relevance, what is the point of it?

We're no longer Leavers, we're all now Remainers - out of the EU.

A deal, in whatever format is definitely better than a no deal and will always be so. Boris needs to calm down and decide his must haves and what can be conceded. He needs to remember he is acting for just one country v the rest of the EU.

Tell bellingsue she's the 1 who has Cummings ear.

He needs to remember he is acting for just one country

Sorry to correct you, Parker.

He is not acting for just one country. He is acting for the United Kingdom - the glorious Union of two kingdoms, one principality and one province, all with their own challenges, needs and concerns. And yes, that will take some thought and some balancing, but together we make a mighty nation that has always punched above its weight in terms of economic power, military power, diplomatic reach; scientific, technological and industrial innovations and inventions; cultural and literary giants.

We are not "just one country".

We are the United Kingdom.

And he wouldn't be doing a proper job if he did not safeguard the rights and best interests of the United Kingdom in this or any other trade agreement.

There's always a posturing stage before the time comes to 'talk turkey'. The informatic upthread about the ratio of imports/exports within the EU, and the occasional mention of standards suggest that it is the EU that will find itself on the back foot. Germany's vast Mittelstand manufacturing lobby will scream 'murder' if there are serious barriers to selling into the UK, as will France's wine producers, Italy's textile industry, and Spain's salad farmers. The UK can't replicate those industries here for all the reasons everyone understands, but the population will still want to buy the products. There is every reason to do a deal, just not a deal that ties our hands.

For all those suggesting the UK is about to renege on standards, it was the UK that drove food hygiene and safety rules, our maternity rights are the best outside Scandinavia, and our climate change compliance is way better than most. And we have the best or second best NMW rates in Europe. No one that I talk to wants to walk away from any of that.

Well said singing.

So long we have been subjected to government putting other people in the first.
It will take sometime getting used to a feisty government putting UK first.

No leavers left here anymore, we are all just proUK

That's perfect, Walking.

That's how I will define myself. ProUK. ✅

Boris won't accept a deal in any format and nor should he. I think he is totally calm and will do what is right for the UK. What do you think the EU will concede? Of course he's acting for one country but I've always believed in quality versus quantity.

As I said before xing this is where it will get really interesting, will eu government put their politics first or economics?

For all those suggesting the UK is about to renege on standards,

I dont think anyone has suggested that. Its the suggestion that the EU should dictate our standards that many are against.

Parker: just to strawman that for a moment. If a country were offered a trade deal where there would be no tariffs, free flow of goods and capital between the two jurisdictions, but country B would be required to, erm, pay for the entire armed forces of country A, on a budget decided by country A, and they'd be required to fight wherever country A told them, we'd all agree straightforwardly that no deal would be better than that for country B.

Like I say, it's a strawman. But it is a reminder that not ALL deals are better than WTO terms.

I'm going to wait to see what the EU and UK negotiators get to (or get stopped by) before I form an opinion about whether the UK has been canny or hoodwinked or sold down the river or any of the other possibilities.

In the end, Sally, money talks.

And it's money that makes the world go round.

Xing has it right. The Mittelstand is the engine room of the German economy and it wants a deal with the UK.

And Germany is the engine room of the EU, Walloons or no Walloons.

Sense will prevail.

My new MP is making his maiden speech right now. He has managed to mention Dorset knobs and the Cerne Valley giant! I am quite pleased about this .
He has a Private Members Bill from the ballot, I am on pins waiting to see what it is........

Common law tends to be based on what's workable and on fairness to all parties; it is flexible, case-based, and can change with time and custom. I prefer the fluidity to the rigidity of Napoleonic legal systems. Just saying.

Remind me, MrsSnippy, your MP is...

It was Bill Clinton's line: it's all about the economy.

I prefer the fluidity to the rigidity of Napoleonic legal systems

That's always been the key to our successes, Xing, and it's precisely why our constitutional arrangements kept butting heads with the EU vision.

It was like trying to graft a Cox's Orange Pippin onto a Jaffa orange. Interesting concept but the only thing they have in common is the word "orange" and that's not enough to make it a success.

This is the Brexit Arms in all but name

It's not

It's a politics thread, not a Brexit-specific thread

If people want a place to interrogate 'leavers' then I suggest starting a thread on the Brexit Board

There are no 'leavers' or 'remainers' now 🤷🏻‍♀️
Just 'pro-UK' (thanks walking!) and 'rejoiners'

Yes of course, we all know that but the eu is stagnating and festering away all shackled together and they don't seem to be doing anything about that expect moving closer together.

If they give us too many '' concessions '' it will seem too straight forward and logical to leave and tempt other countries to follow suit, if they are too punitive and cut off some of that engine rooms financing... They will have even less money to grease their wheels perhaps leading to collapse as well.

One thing I have noticed is that barnier poker face has glimmer of worry about it.

Fluidity is key in a globalised world - as a nation state, UK can adapt & respond dynamically as & when required

No waiting for 27 other countries to come to agreement, no taking into account 27 other countries' priorities or otherwise

UK can again decide our own priorities, direction & future....

What's not to love?! 🇬🇧🙌

Unless a country's economy is generating money/surplus, there's no room to spend on improving health, social care or education to take advantage of the rising technological wave, and unless a nation/economy is moving ahead, then it is losing ground or falling behind. Ideally, I think the growth trajectory quest should be a little slower to have time to resolve the legacies, but the technology diktat of possibility is fairly relentless.

I don’t think Barnier is looking worried. He has reminded Boris that he has already agreed to stay true to EU rules on subsidies and standards.

Both sides need to quickly agree as to the processes for the Irish border - that can’t be allowed to drag on. It’s not helpful Boris saying there will be no checks and the EU saying there will be.