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Politics

Labour’s u-turn on supporting the Brexit Referendum result.

266 replies

TheaSaurass · 27/08/2017 02:51

Can anyone believe a policy this party campaigns on for votes at a general election?

Media supporters may call it a ‘shift’, but it’s a honking great u-turn, as weeks ago Corbyn on a Sunday political programme was asked to clarify Labour’s actual position (as attracted Leave and Remain votes at the last election) and he stated that Labour's position was that the UK WAS leaving the Single Market, otherwise we wouldn't be leaving.

And while the man currently setting Labour policy Keir Starmer says the time for “constructive ambiguity” is over this totally undermines the government’s position ahead of EU negotiations resuming next week.

Instead of getting on with Brexit, Labour will only support a transitional period from 2021 to 2023 (leaving open the option to stay in for good), so while May did not get the election result she wanted, who can say she wasn’t right not to trust a parliamentary Labour Party pretending they supported Brexit, to get government legislation through parliament.

Clearly they NOW feel there are more votes for leaving the question if we leave the EU, open.

“Labour makes dramatic shift on Brexit and single market”

”Labour is to announce a dramatic policy shift by backing continued membership of the EU single market beyond March 2019, when Britain leaves the EU, establishing a clear dividing line with the Tories on Brexit for the first time.”

”In a move that positions it decisively as the party of “soft Brexit”, Labour will support full participation in the single market and customs union during a lengthy “transitional period” that it believes could last between two and four years after the day of departure, it is to announce on Sunday.”

”This will mean that under a Labour government the UK would continue to abide by the EU’s free movement rules, accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice on trade and economic issues, and pay into the EU budget for a period of years after Brexit, in the hope of lessening the shock of leaving to the UK economy. In a further move that will delight many pro-EU Labour backers, Jeremy Corbyn’s party will also leave open the option of the UK remaining a member of the customs union and single market for good, beyond the end of the transitional period.”

”The decision to stay inside the single market and abide by all EU rules during the transitional period, and possibly beyond, was agreed after a week of intense discussion at the top of the party. It was signed off by the leadership and key members of the shadow cabinet on Thursday, according to Starmer’s office.”

OP posts:
TheElementsSong · 03/09/2017 22:33

I love how anything said, is never used as a whole, but cherry picked to provide a place to poke...

Was there a further meaning later on in your post that didn't mean you are cool with the likelihood of living costs going up?

mummmy2017 · 03/09/2017 22:35

So Morrisons have a contract for 40,000 trays of tomatoes to be delivered from Spain, they pay on delivery, and they don't arrive, so the Spanish Farmers don't get paid, as the items never arrives, or never not eatable when they arrived. do you not think this will an EU problem as well as a UK one.

Ta1kinPeece · 03/09/2017 22:36

Pity you can't see there is no way back, so we have to accept what could or may happen.
You re right I cannot see or accept that bit

Food may go up, it also could come down, but there will be pluses and gains in all things, however my crystal ball isn't working right now, so i can't say which particular items.....
Do list the gains please

mummmy2017 · 03/09/2017 22:37

No one wants Living costs to go up, your being childish on purpose...

mummmy2017 · 03/09/2017 22:39

So sorry my Crystall Ball won't work at the moment and my Time Machine is charging...

If you could have stated all this BEFORE the Referendum maybe the vote would have been different, but you are to blame just as much as I am for what happened.
Had you won it would be you telling me that it was wishful thinking, why do you need to see this fail so badly, what are you frighten of?

Peregrina · 03/09/2017 22:41

Living costs are already going up. Some Brexiteers argue that the £ was overvalued which implies that they don't have a problem with increased costs.

Ta1kinPeece · 03/09/2017 22:43

If you could have stated all this BEFORE the Referendum maybe the vote would have been different
I did, repeatedly
so did the Economist, the FT, the US press, the EU press
so did most sensible scientists, economists and business people

Unfortunately people believed that Gove knew better than experts
and that the £350m was not a total lie

and many of them voted for reasons that were NOT written on the ballot paper

hence why its so good that the vote was advisory and can be ignored once parliament grow a pair

mummmy2017 · 03/09/2017 22:44

Living cost have always gone up, a loaf of bread cost pennies once...

mummmy2017 · 03/09/2017 22:49

Oh you mean we can ignore the bit of paper we gave the EU...
That 17 Million asked to be sent...

Ta1kinPeece · 03/09/2017 22:50

Living cost have always gone up, a loaf of bread cost pennies once...
Hmmm
relative to earnings, food is cheaper now than it has ever been.

I have my account books showing my shopping bills in the late 1980's
a baguette cost around 60p
when a decent graduate salary was £10,000 a year
my three bedroom house in the SE cost me £30,000
and mortgages were 15%

wine was £5 a bottle in 1986
is £5 a bottle now
but houses and wages have moved on somewhat

UK food is incredibly cheap
if the Brexit team are stupid enough to revert to WTO rules it will rise by a lot

mathanxiety · 03/09/2017 22:54

I think you are being carried away by words. Divorce bill is shorthand. It is not meant as a term with any specific meaning.

This is a contract issue. The UK agreed to pay a certain amount to the EU until 2020.

You can't still trade on WTO terms, not with the US, China, Japan, New Zealand or Brazil, and others who do not have trade agreements with the EU.

Post Brexit, the UK will be faced with a stark choice - US vs European countries as trade partners. The EU will not countenance dumping, selling on of items imported from other countries, unfair advantages that are the result of government subsidies, or low corporate taxes that undercut EU tax rates, and the UK faces issues with WTO members if it applies tariffs cut and pasted from the current EU schedule that restrict access to the UK market.

Here is a brief glimpse of the minefield that lies on the sunlit uplands:
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-26/theresa-may-faces-wto-trade-tangle-as-brexit-lift-off-nears-q-a

mummmy2017 · 03/09/2017 23:03

I also remember when a fridge took a months wages, and now it takes a weeks to buy one.
All things change, and yes I don't think life will be easy, but I do think somehow we will get through to the other side, and once there and have more knowledge instead of 2 sides blaming the other, we can move forward and sort things. Well we are going to have to aren't we.

mummmy2017 · 03/09/2017 23:07

For godsake Maths, face up to the future.
Do you really think the EU is going to be able to stand there and like a parent tell 27 countries, don't sell the goods you made to the UK because they bought something from someone else.
Can you see France being happy that their Champagne isn't being drunk, as we buy the most and sits in their warehouses, so they can stroke it...
We can trade with anyone on the WTO agreement, that is what it is there for. We are already members.

Peregrina · 03/09/2017 23:13

I also remember when a fridge took a months wages, and now it takes a weeks to buy one.

Yet a few posts back you told us that living costs have always gone up. Which is it?

mummmy2017 · 03/09/2017 23:16

Nit picking again I see.... Easter Smile
I also said I can't look into my crystal ball to see what items will increase and which will decrease...

mathanxiety · 03/09/2017 23:25

Do you really think the EU is going to be able to stand there and like a parent tell 27 countries, don't sell the goods you made to the UK because they bought something from someone else.

You seem to think this 'big bad EU bogeyman' is an entity separate from its members, some horrible ogre hulking over the states of Europe like a power hungry beast issuing rules and interfering in everyone's business.

It is not. The EU is a bloc of willing member states that operates on the basis of consensual gloop, as Thea calls it.

Trade is highly regulated, no matter who the trading partners are.

Please read the Bloomberg article I posted so you will be disabused of the idea you have that the WTO is like the bottom of some rainbow.

mummmy2017 · 03/09/2017 23:29

Math's you can post as many links as you like, I did read it, and there are plus as well as minus in the article, but hell don't let that ever impinge on your view and need for Brexit to fail.... god forbid that something good rear it's head, the bogeyman will give you a heart attack.

user1481838270 · 03/09/2017 23:40

Oh dear.

As centuries of dictators have known, an illiterate crowd is the easiest to rule.

woman12345 · 04/09/2017 07:02

Sainsbury’s CEO warns post-Brexit rules could leave food rotting at UK border

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sainsburys-ceo-mike-coupe-brexit-food-eu-goods-uk-border-a7927606.html

TheElementsSong · 04/09/2017 10:18

Sainsbury’s CEO warns post-Brexit rules could leave food rotting at UK border

Pah what does he know he doesn't have a crystal ball he just needs to believe that everything will be great and it will happen or else he is talking Britain down

YokoReturns · 04/09/2017 13:51

talking Britain down

This surely is the worst of all the Leavers' arguments, that if we somehow 'talk Britain up' in negotiations, the media etc. then success in Brexit will naturally follow.

We don't even know what we want from negotiations, so how can we possibly be ruining our chances for a successful Brexit by making (probably quite accurate) predictions?

LineysRun · 04/09/2017 14:09

Just because Theresa May isn't the biggest fucking idiot in the world doesn't mean she's not an absolute liability regarding the British national interest.

Peregrina · 04/09/2017 14:47

talking Britain down
We all know the born pessimists who, whenever anything is proposed, immediately say, "you can't do that". That is talking down. There is a world of difference between them and people who say, "There is a problem, a solution worth trying would be....", which is being IMO a realist. I can't say I have seen any of these in May's Government. And then there are those, like May's stooges who are in cloud cuckoo land, and say "it will work out right because we say it will work out".

TheElementsSong · 04/09/2017 16:30

"it will work out right because we say it will work out".

I might be persuaded to have a little more (as they urge) faith in this, if they could even agree amongst themselves on what "working out" and "right" means.

mathanxiety · 04/09/2017 21:31

god forbid that something good rear it's head, the bogeyman will give you a heart attack.

God forbid that something bad should rear its head because that would be too much for the Brexit bubble dwellers to bear. Hence all the nonsense about 'talking Britain down', etc, as if holding your breath and your nose and putting a blindfold over your eyes, and wishing really, really hard, with fingers and toes all crossed and a pinch of salt thrown behind your left shoulder will make everything perfectly hunky dory in the end.

What are your thoughts on the prospect of food on its way to British supermarkets rotting in Calais?