Labour’s u-turn on supporting the Brexit Referendum result.

[TheaSaurass]

Can anyone believe a policy this party campaigns on for votes at a general election?

Media supporters may call it a ‘shift’, but it’s a honking great u-turn, as weeks ago Corbyn on a Sunday political programme was asked to clarify Labour’s actual position (as attracted Leave and Remain votes at the last election) and he stated that Labour's position was that the UK WAS leaving the Single Market, otherwise we wouldn't be leaving.

And while the man currently setting Labour policy Keir Starmer says the time for “constructive ambiguity” is over this totally undermines the government’s position ahead of EU negotiations resuming next week.

Instead of getting on with Brexit, Labour will only support a transitional period from 2021 to 2023 (leaving open the option to stay in for good), so while May did not get the election result she wanted, who can say she wasn’t right not to trust a parliamentary Labour Party pretending they supported Brexit, to get government legislation through parliament.

Clearly they NOW feel there are more votes for leaving the question if we leave the EU, open.

“Labour makes dramatic shift on Brexit and single market”

”Labour is to announce a dramatic policy shift by backing continued membership of the EU single market beyond March 2019, when Britain leaves the EU, establishing a clear dividing line with the Tories on Brexit for the first time.”

”In a move that positions it decisively as the party of “soft Brexit”, Labour will support full participation in the single market and customs union during a lengthy “transitional period” that it believes could last between two and four years after the day of departure, it is to announce on Sunday.”

”This will mean that under a Labour government the UK would continue to abide by the EU’s free movement rules, accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice on trade and economic issues, and pay into the EU budget for a period of years after Brexit, in the hope of lessening the shock of leaving to the UK economy. In a further move that will delight many pro-EU Labour backers, Jeremy Corbyn’s party will also leave open the option of the UK remaining a member of the customs union and single market for good, beyond the end of the transitional period.”

”The decision to stay inside the single market and abide by all EU rules during the transitional period, and possibly beyond, was agreed after a week of intense discussion at the top of the party. It was signed off by the leadership and key members of the shadow cabinet on Thursday, according to Starmer’s office.”

I could add that I believe mathanxiety is Irish, so will be well informed about governing by Referenda.

"Labour's U-Turn"
could you post a link to where Corbyn supports a soft Brexit?
or where McDonnell does?
or Milne does?
as until those three change their lifelong loathing of the EU, no policy change will happen

much as most of us wish it would ...

Maths we all understand that your still bitter about the vote, but that is how things are done in the UK.

A further post from me. Anyone who has been involved in running an election, either Parliamentary or Local, know that the rules are well defined. There is e.g. a clear procedure laid down about what to do in the event of the voted being tied. As far as the relative handful of Referenda we have had in the UK are concerned, my understanding is that the rules have been different each time. This does not support the statement, 'this is how things are done'.

mathanxiety
if anybody wants to know how important the UK is to the USA, start to read the US news websites
I suggest
The New York Times
The Washington Post
USA Today
The LA Times
then you will see how important or utterly not a trade deal with the UK is to the USA

How is it that 17 Million of us voted to Leave, expecting it to happen if we voted for it.
Once it happened and we were told that was going to happen then we had a GE in which the Tories won, by getting the most votes. It doesn't matter how many or how few they won by they did win.
They then do the same as was done with Liberals and gather support to make sure they can gets votes through in parliament, and go on to form a government, and yet still you can't see that this is the country voting for us to leave.
Had Labour been able to gather enough votes to govern do you really think they won't be in power right now?
Just because some MN think we shouldn't proceed, doesn't mean we won't. Even the EU think we are leaving..
This should be about how we move forward, not looking backwards.

There are times mummmy when the party with the most votes doesn't get the most seats - e.g. the October 1951 election. It didn't mean that Labour could say that they should still have been in power.

Had Theresa May not stitched up her deal with the DUP this time, we could still have had Corbyn trying to lead a minority Government, as Wilson did, when Heath squandered his majority.

But 17 million voted to Leave, expecting it to happen, and if it's not doing you need to take the matter up with May and her chums who seem to be making a complete hash of things.

Trump got less votes than Hillary ......

Dubya got less votes than Gore ......

One third of the UK electorate did not bother to vote for or against Brexit
the legislation clearly stated that it was advisory -
parliament is well within its right to grow a pair and call the whole thing off

Mummy - If you are trying to suggest there is a mandate for Theresa May's preferred version of Brexit - whatever that may be, because it is not at all clear and Barnier has pointer that out frequently, you are 'very brave' as they say.

Peregrina did I also not say and gathered enough support to get votes through in Parliament.
Were Labour not also trying to gain enough votes to do the same as had happened in 1951.
If the EU were willing to make a deal instead of saying PAY THE BILL all the time I am sure there would be more progress, and to be honest my view is and always has been from the first day we knew how the EU intended to play their cards, that we will leave no deal, and then we will work out a trade deal, because no matter what the negotiations come out as, that are going to be presented to the MEP's as a Deal to vote on, it's never going to be what all 27 countries want, and someone is going to throw it out of bed.

As a forriner, I've been on the wrong side of the UK Border Force

Theresa May's view of the world is narrow, xenophobic and devoid of evidence
see the debacles of the drugs bill or the student visa data
for that alone she should be ignored

One third of the UK electorate did not bother to vote for or against Brexit

Even that hides different reasons. You may recall there was severe flooding in parts of Britain that day and I imagine if you have been flooded out of your home, voting might not be your first priority. In other cases, Southern trains were playing up and people couldn't get to the polling stations on time. Other people felt that they were not fully qualified to vote, which is what we have a Parliamentary democracy for. Some people were ill and passed away between the postal vote being applied for and polling day arriving. And of course, some didn't feel strongly either way.

Some how this has all turned into a cast iron vote for leaving the single market and the customs union.

So far in the small print,, we have to pay for...
Bears.
Re roofing huts.
Replanting Grass....

mummy
What deal do you want the EU to make ?
Euratom ?
International Aid?
Fisheries?
Regional aid?
Customs Union?
Reciprocal Health Care?
Medicines Agency?
Monetary trading?
Cross border transfers of manufacturing goods?
Cross border transfers of finished goods?
Customs clearance for people and goods?
Passported workers?
Seasonal workers?
The le Touquet agreement?
Northern Ireland ?

as only once all of those are settled can the divorce bill be quantified

and despite David Davis and Liam Fox saying so, the UK cannot do a trade deal with BMW after brexit

Was the question about leaving Euratom on your ballot paper? It wasn't on mine, and there was no reason for it to be so, because it was part of a completely separate treaty and was nothing to do with the EEC/EU.

Um no, its part of the EU and under the ECJ

scientists were warning about it well in advance of the vote
but they were "experts"
so ignored

and unless its sorted the NHS cannot offer radiotherapy to cancer patients
among other things

Since I am not in the know about how this all works, I can only go on what I think and yes I am sure these are all being worked on, but at some point our involvement in the paying of Green issues should and will stop, as we already fund many project from our own budget you can't say we are neglecting Overseas AID.
If you were selling a company you part owned would you not want to know what the value of your share was and how it was being worked out... There will always be assets and liabilities...

I did not say overseas aid, I said regional aid

The EU has pumped far more money into WAles, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Cornwall than the UK government has directly

Green issues : watch this video to see where the UK is headed after Brexit
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

THe company analogy is entirely erroneous

No the Company analogy is true.
The Accountants are working through the figures to come up with an amount we are willing to pay.
There will be words. there will be numbers...
There will be Liabilities as in the PDF published on here.
It states we will get back our share held by the bank.
There are also many Assets help by the EU.
Buildings and have we not been given bills to repair these, so someone must own them, and if they are owned who do you think paid into the pot to buy the land to build them on and to pay for the materials, and this is what an asset is, some thing you own that has value.
So we are back into the Accounts thing again...

I AM an accountant
I also used to work in import export

the "divorce bill" is chicken feed compared with the logistics of exiting the free market
focus on how you will buy your veg rather than who owns 15% of a building in Brussels

Um no, its part of the EU and under the ECJ

According to DS who works at one of their labs, it was a separate treaty - which might have got absorbed into the ECJ but I am pretty sure wasn't part of the EU. I asked him the day after the Referendum vote whether it would affect them and the word was No, because it was established under a different Treaty. Come A50 and leaving Euratom being mentioned specifically in the additional paper work, it came as a complete bolt from the blue, and the senior management were incandescent about not being informed. Nor had any of the Tory MPs representing the constituencies involved.

How can you do a Divorce Bill, when you don't know what your getting a Divorce from?

Basic mathematics here..
We can still buy if we trade on WTO terms, so we won't starve, it may cost more, but if the EU offer nothing , then we have lost nothing, and it's not all one sided, and you can't pretend it is..

(Ireland has a written constitution, established after a plebiscite in 1937, that states that the authority of the government comes from the people (as opposed to a monarch). The constitution allows for a referendum if any of the clauses of the constitution are to be amended or removed, or if any new clauses are to be added. There have been a number of occasions in past decades when this instrument has been used, but basically Ireland is a parliamentary democracy.)

so we won't starve, it may cost more

We're awfully blithe about other people affording food, because sovereignty is so nutritious and tasty.

We can still buy if we trade on WTO terms
yes but HOW : the logistics of customs clearance to the EU are just not there
the Dover bottleneck cannot cope with the issues
and everybody who airily says WTO has not looked at the physicality of it
C88s and T2 and demurrage coming back to the ports and being brought into the tunnel for the first time will cause utter and complete chaos for months and months

and kiss goodbye to cheap phone charges and holiday flights

peregrina
Yes, it was subsumed some years back - friends work in radiation labs at universities
again a case of the brexiteers not doing ANY homework before telling lies for the vote

I love how anything said, is never used as a whole, but cherry picked to provide a place to poke...
Pity you can't see there is no way back, so we have to accept what could or may happen.
Food may go up, it also could come down, but there will be pluses and gains in all things, however my crystal ball isn't working right now, so i can't say which particular items.....