Labour’s u-turn on supporting the Brexit Referendum result.

[TheaSaurass]

Can anyone believe a policy this party campaigns on for votes at a general election?

Media supporters may call it a ‘shift’, but it’s a honking great u-turn, as weeks ago Corbyn on a Sunday political programme was asked to clarify Labour’s actual position (as attracted Leave and Remain votes at the last election) and he stated that Labour's position was that the UK WAS leaving the Single Market, otherwise we wouldn't be leaving.

And while the man currently setting Labour policy Keir Starmer says the time for “constructive ambiguity” is over this totally undermines the government’s position ahead of EU negotiations resuming next week.

Instead of getting on with Brexit, Labour will only support a transitional period from 2021 to 2023 (leaving open the option to stay in for good), so while May did not get the election result she wanted, who can say she wasn’t right not to trust a parliamentary Labour Party pretending they supported Brexit, to get government legislation through parliament.

Clearly they NOW feel there are more votes for leaving the question if we leave the EU, open.

“Labour makes dramatic shift on Brexit and single market”

”Labour is to announce a dramatic policy shift by backing continued membership of the EU single market beyond March 2019, when Britain leaves the EU, establishing a clear dividing line with the Tories on Brexit for the first time.”

”In a move that positions it decisively as the party of “soft Brexit”, Labour will support full participation in the single market and customs union during a lengthy “transitional period” that it believes could last between two and four years after the day of departure, it is to announce on Sunday.”

”This will mean that under a Labour government the UK would continue to abide by the EU’s free movement rules, accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice on trade and economic issues, and pay into the EU budget for a period of years after Brexit, in the hope of lessening the shock of leaving to the UK economy. In a further move that will delight many pro-EU Labour backers, Jeremy Corbyn’s party will also leave open the option of the UK remaining a member of the customs union and single market for good, beyond the end of the transitional period.”

”The decision to stay inside the single market and abide by all EU rules during the transitional period, and possibly beyond, was agreed after a week of intense discussion at the top of the party. It was signed off by the leadership and key members of the shadow cabinet on Thursday, according to Starmer’s office.”

That was really well put YokoReturns.

"We are demanding that big organisations with the financial means to do so are prevented from infiltrating public forums and skewing debate."

Id absolutely agree with that Yoko. So why is the shill accusation thrown out at me ( or the OP) who clearly are nothing more than an opposing view? We're demanded on here (MN), to put up our reasoning behind our views, and then called shills for doing so and accused of posting so called 'verbiage'?

The OP gets told regularly shes wrong. I utterly understand why she responds as she does.

I think one of the actual aims of these sorts of poster is to make social media spaces such as the Politics section of MN just unusable by normal people.

Absolutely. And it works.

"Disagreeing with Brexit, austerity, Trump, the dismantling of the NHS etc. does not make one a loony, a do-gooder, a bleeding heart liberal or otherwise."

No, but youre not 'disagreeing', youre outrageously accusing and reporting posters as shills in an attempt to censor. (Because you dont like their writing style?)

It really isn't a writing style thing.

Claig, who wrote in an uncannily similar style to OP, hijacked the Brexit debate on here and saw off most of the posters on his/her threads with convoluted references to, well, I don't know what, because his/her point was always lost in the sheer volume of words and formatting.

I've actually got very little to say about Brexit, apart from 'not my circus/monkeys' (although, sadly, the circus is draining the country's political resources and civil service).

Carolinesbeanies

Thank you for speaking up for me, I was busy today and didn’t look in until now.

As you mentioned, my ‘crime’ on the ‘Politics Board’ is mentioning a Labour Party announcement, using a Guardian link and quotes, that is both a huge constitutional ‘event’ based on their previous stance and this governments ability to get any Brexit deal through parliament – but unfortunately for the Labour Party itself, it has gone down like a cup of cold sick – which is no doubt why by my mentioning it, I’m ‘ruining the board’.

When I first started posting I was basically told by several no-doubt ‘elite’ Mumsnet posters that I could not string a sentence together, am I English, my poor granma? was shit, all trying to discredit both my input and views – I assume the next step up of my Mumsnet ‘right of centre passage’ – is to be told I am now ruining the board with pesky facts.

Apparently I must not dispute or factually answer such throwaway statements like ‘the UK’s economy is going in the dump truck due to Brexit’, ‘the EU poops roses’, or ‘there is no government plan’ on anything, and many other statements of basic misinformation – so I appear to my objectors trying to add some balance, to be the ‘paid problem’.

Now frankly if I was going to peddle misinformation, I would need to be paid to do that, so take that whichever way you will.

As to my factually correct OP, here are some more recent ones, maybe not so factually correct;

“DUP, Tory Gov, Money.”

”Boris Johnson, we are done for”

”Therea May Scrapping certain Human Rights”

”Theresa May and Police Funding”

”Theresa May to legalise Ivory Trade”

”Should Theresa May Resign”

”You should be ashamed of yourself if you voted Tory…”

I can see why you don’t like Labour policies/problems of their own making, being aired in public.

Claig was utterly Trump focussed. (I miss her, as well as her 'teh's) Theas writing style is nothing like Claigs, and anyone who spent a couple of weeks on a thread with Claig knows her style. She was harangued, ridiculed, targeted and mocked relentlessly for months and months. (She was also funny and insightful) Whilst MN were taking the piss out of Trump ever becoming President, she was proven time and time again, to be right.

Being right on here has a nasty habit of being silenced.

JC and Keir Starmer have always said a labour Brexit would put the common market and customs union as a top priority in negotiations. There is no U turn - just a stronger message which the membership have been calling for. The Tories are the U Turn party - never forget it!!

Student Debt, was a U TURN.

Argue all you like about that.
Single Market,, U turn.
Labour are not in power and seem to be will to prostitute their own party.

Thea how is the opposition shifting its stance 'a huge constitutional event'? Total exaggeration, and nothing to do with the constitution.

I also see U turns as a sign that Labour are listening to people, who are justifiably nervous about leaving customs union/single market. A U turn doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of judgement.

Thea, Im not so much defending you, as defending your right to post. Personally, I think youre holding your own
Readers always have the choice to sweep on by (I do with loads of posters who simply wish to tie you up on irrelevancies and goady noise) just as they have the choice to hide threads.
Complaining that a poster hasnt laid out a witty grammatically correct viewpoint, shouldnt detract from the very pertinent points made. And you do make very pertinent and correct points.

Labour are not in power and seem to be will to prostitute their own party.

That makes you come across as some kind of Paul Nuttall figure.

Imablackstar, I wonder if Ruth Cadbury, Andy Slaughter and Catherine West agree with you. They lost their jobs over JCs demand that the Party were not to support a 'soft brexit' and maintain access to the single market....

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/five-shadow-ministers-forced-to-quit-corbyn-shadow-team-after-voting-soft-brexitukk_59552c3ce4b02734df30af9f

(Huff post just for variance

@theasaurass - grateful for your exposition of labour failings - any chance you could expound on what the tories plan to do - and perhaps their successes over their time in office?

Looking good for remain Labour

Yoko, I think one of the huge issues re Brexit, is that the Brexit vote wasnt a party political one. Leavers and Remainers, voted from all areas, all walks of life. Any party, is possibly therefore doomed to failure by making the leave/remain stance a party political one. Is SM membership viewed as 'remain in all but name'? IMO, yes it is.

Coalition government anybody?

Not that it really matters carolinesbeanies, and flattered as I am by that reference, it's not my real fake name.

Leave was funded by the extreme right and some very dodgy neo fascists. Brexit is not a labour policy, and no, Labour won't be doing any coalitions with any leave parties.

Great that the mood and polls are changing, and that they are moving towards rejecting this insane little coup.

This could have the potential to further weaken the current government, which can only be a good thing. Hopefully there will either be another election sooner than planned or TM will finally go and (wishful thinking) maybe a more moderate MP might take her place. I really think the government has been disastrous on so many key issues, I don't think UK can handle much more.

thecatfromjapan thank you

PS DS1 loves My Cat Likes To Hide In Boxes!!

caroline it could be argued that May and the Tories have turned Brexit party political, what with being the party of Hard Brexit.

Perhaps Labour's U-turn is in response to this? They need a position and they've manoeuvred into one.

"Not that it really matters carolinesbeanies, and flattered as I am by that reference, it's not my real fake name."

?????

Havent a clue what this refers to....... can you link to whatever youre going on about woman12345?

(or am I being dense here, and someone is pretending to be someone else, though clearly theyre not

Is this the poll youre refering to woman12345, 70% of voters say a brexit bill of 30bn or more is utterly unacceptable and 60% say a bill of over 10bn is outrageous?

The Guardian......today.

"caroline it could be argued that May and the Tories have turned Brexit party political, what with being the party of Hard Brexit.

Perhaps Labour's U-turn is in response to this? They need a position and they've manoeuvred into one."

Yoko, someone has to deliver Brexit. Thats the first issue and one that saw DC run for the hills. The second issue is delivering what the nation have instructed the government to do. What I think is being misunderstood, is that on this issue, the nation will demand the government behave as they are elected to behave, and thats to act at the wishes of the people. The line has been drawn, and the british people will continue with their rejection of the EU, until a government turns up who will indeed act as they are paid to.

In the meantime, all the internal fannying around, from both main parties, serves no one, but this is what happens when parliament isnt reflective of the voting population. If MPs were 50/50 split, as the nation is, then we wouldnt be having these discussions. As it is, we still have an overwhelming representation of remain MPs, attempting to steer the nation by any means or dirty tactics. Its just not going to wash, whichever party you pin your colours to.

woman's poll is older than that. I think it was drawn from Ashcroft research and was about what people wanted from Brexit (ie. not to be worse off).

It's a fascinating poll because it suggests that long-term dissatisfaction with Brexit is going to be a real problem - mainly for the Conservatives and all those associated with Brexit.

Because Brexit is going to make people worse off, and people are going to lose their jobs.

So there is a real fear haunting those who are implementing this about the long-term political fall out from Brexit.

And, of course, there is a huge political incentive for finding other people to blame for the inevitable results of Brexit.

Your poll (as I'm sure you know) is about how much people think we should pay the EU when we leave.

That's a short-term cost.

It is (this financial settlement of what the UK owes + eventually cost of staying in the SM, if we go that route), oddly enough, also one of the two issues that Arron Banks' group has decided to focus on in order to put pressure on the government for a 'Hard Brexit'.

It's quite a good issue to focus on, since the idea of a 'divorce settlement' is quite a simple one, that people can get their heads around. It is, however, a gross simplification of what this money is. And the reality, of course, is that the UK doesn't really have many cards to play. DD's stalling tactics (the cunning plan of turning up to talks with nothing planned with regard to that financial decision) seems to be going really, really badly.

The poll you link to is nothing to do with the one that woman linked to. I strongly suspect you know that.