Genuine question for Tory voters

[Bluebeedee]

Really not asking this in a goady way- I just want to know if anyone has changed their mind over the last few days of TM refusing to do any interviews/debates. I don't think Rudd did anything positive for the Conservative party with her appearance on the debate the other night and what I have seen of TM, she seems like she might actually be having a bit of a breakdown?

I didn't go to university btw. Did ok in the end but it just wasn't on my parents radar.

My DS has taken the university loan. Its his to pay back. I noticed on results day that some uni's were offering degrees with two E's.

Through It also seems illogical to give so much to students who are largely more middle class (we all know working class young people are less likely to go on to uni) and who are likely to earn more than the national average after graduating when there are others living in poverty

Hillingdon

I think Took could do with some help regarding budgeting. Firstly she claims that 25% of kids are in poverty and then that she only as £8 to last a week. Something is going wrong.

You know you're really not a good advert for the tory voters. Those child poverty figures aren't something I made up and I have already posted links to several organisations including the British Medical Journal and Barnardos that back them up.

Also as already stated several times and LadyinCement I will say it again slowly as you're obviously a bit slow on the uptake, it is not every week that I only have £8 for food - we have an unpredictable and unreliable income that has to cover a high rent and bills. Sometimes that means we are extremely short of money. We are not alone in this.

Sigh..

But you have helped me to understand the mind of a tory voter more, so thank you for that. You seem to just refuse to accept the facts and that way you can carry on voting the way you do

I'm not in the UK so no skin in the game so to speak but just wanted to point out that the whole thing with Corbyn and Brexit is seen completely differently outside the UK. In fact just today was listening to a radio discussion on how a successful deal would be far more likely with him. He is open to the single market and politically is closer to most EU leaders ideologically (with exceptions of course) And also at this stage he just seems far more stable than TM who unfortunately has presented herself on the international stage so far as a bit....Trump-y? Eccentric, sensitive and undiplomatic. In Ireland we really need a somewhat decent Brexit deal for all parties or it will be catastrophic for our own economy- Theresa May and all the (I'm sorry to say) utterly silly posturing does not inspire confidence.

The Conservative viewpoints on this thread seem to be saying that labour policies are not affordable and by the way corbyn is bad. I guess the abject failure of idealistic tory policies - monetarism and austerity are ignored because they targeted those with least - a stark contrast to the blair/Brown years.

Still voting Conservative and I think May did the right thing not getting involved in those pathetic so-called 'debates'.

Took from the little I can glean on here about your circumstances, the Tories are promising to do more to help your family than Labour. Increasing the tax threshold is a Tory policy. Making work pay has been IDS' mission for many years.

I am struggling to understand what Corbyn offers that appeals to you. It just looks like bread and circuses to me.

ShotsFired

Thank you for your comments. They show some understanding and you didn't resort to insults like some other posters have.

Listen, I understand that Labour's proposals seem to be promising a lot. I don't know if they can deliver everything, probably not. But the borrowing that seems to be terrifying everyone is to invest in infrastructure and jobs. This will boost the economy and create more revenue. Building social housing means jobs and tax income. People having more money in their pockets means they spend it in the economy.

Some of the nationalisation will happen when current franchises expire so won't cost anything in that respect and will of course then bring in money for the state. These are often currently owned by other country's states and the income is helping to reduce their rail fares or utility bills - that doesn't seem sensible to me.

Also, why does everyone assume we will be plunged into '70's chaos? You think we are incapable of running our own services but France or Germany are? Have a little faith in your country! ;)

The Conservatives are ideological and do not care about most of the population. They want to privatise and sell off everything to people like them and keep the wealth. Most of them live in a different world to you all. How can you not see that? They do not act in the best interests of YOU!

No Labour won't be able to achieve all it wants too. But i would vote anything but Tory. Which here will be Lib Dem

Disclaimer - I am an NHS Doctor.

Took I remember BR and BT well and sadly they gave me every indication that we are indeed incapable of running our own services well!

The Labour spending plan is naive and simplistic. Unfortunately, so are a disturbing number of voters. How on earth can anyone want Diane Abbott in the Cabinet? It would be an international embarrassment.

They want to privatise and sell off everything to people like them and keep the wealth.

I must have missed that bit in their manifesto

DH is also a NHS doctor (and a Tory) - it proves nothing. It's disappointing that someone with the intelligence to become a doctor can spout such ill-informed scaremongering claptrap. I suspect that - like many NHS employees - you favour a government that will keep the gravy train running without asking difficult questions about reform, pensions, affordability, the ageing population or any of the other questions that any responsible government should be asking.

YoungGirlGrowingOld

How on earth can anyone want Diane Abbott in the Cabinet? It would be an international embarrassment.

I have two words for you Boris Johnson!

I am no fan of Diane Abbott believe me and Corbyn actually hinted the other day that she won't automatically become Home Secretary so there is that hope!

Also as I said previously, I do have confidence in our Brexit negotiating team of Keir Starmer and Barry Gardiner, I don't think they will take any nonsense.

The tories haven't exactly covered themselves in glory with their spending plans. Costing breakfasts for schoolchildren at 7p each?!

Ditto Fontella.

DH and I are currently working towards building a life in the UK (he is a non EU national). If Corbyn gets in, we're off.

Has the story manifesto been costed yet?

Took - you chose those jobs. You chose to have a child. You chose those bills. Do you think others who made different choices should subsidise you?

I'm not necessarily saying they shouldn't, btw. Just asking where you think that line should be drawn.

Well I think we can agree that Boris is a bumbling fool, but he still has more brains than the monumentally stupid Abbott. And at least he has some charm!

I don't pretend that the Conservative party gets it right every time - TM is proving that now. But it's one thing to give the stories a bloody nose and quite another to have Corbyn (and potentially Abbott and McD) at the helm.

I don't know enough about Keir Starmer to comment but I suspect he will challenge for the leadership after Labour lose (and imo he should). He seems rather young and inexperienced to negotiate trade deals (especially this one). TM at least has plenty of experience at the HO which will undoubtedly help.

YoungGirlGrowingOld

I must have missed that bit in their manifesto

*Theresa May has backed a plan that describes NHS resources as a “source of untapped value” and called on the health service to take “a more commercial approach” to selling off its assets.

The Prime Minister was accused of backing the sell-off of parts of the NHS after she said she would implement the so-called Naylor Review, a 42-page report commissioned by Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt.*

From the Independent.

DianeAbbottsBeefyCurtains

Took - you chose those jobs. You chose to have a child. You chose those bills. Do you think others who made different choices should subsidise you?

Can you tell me where I asked for subsidies? I have already stated I am not asking for any handouts.

Took I imagine that comment in context was specifically about land. In which case, she's right. Don't you want a NHS that runs efficiently and maximizes available resources? It's clear blue water between that and "selling off everything to their mates" FGS.

Personally, I would prefer a social insurance system of healthcare but that's too right wing for TM. Apparently, NHS will continue to limp along for the foreseeable future, so no need for histrionics.

My voting decision is my own and private so I'm not answering this as a Tory voter as requested in the OP but anyone refusing to take part in these appalling 'debates' shows more courage, conviction and character than the any individual who thinks this is good democracy. Nothing is 'debated' - it's an appalling slanging match all about point scoring. You learn nothing from them other than who might have been biggest play ground bully or the most manipulative nasty character at school. Shame on them all and shame in us for importing this abomination of 'democracy'. It's the political version of Jeremy Kyle. What's next I wonder? General elections where the leaders go into the big brother house for a week first - yuk

DianeAbbottsBeefyCurtains

Took - you chose those jobs. You chose to have a child. You chose those bills. Do you think others who made different choices should subsidise you?

Also - I chose those bills??

Whilst we're on the subject of asking genuine questions to Tory supporters in a non-goady way, I have a couple I would be interested in hearing replies to. I tried to start a specific thread on this but I'm clearly shite at starting threads as no-one replied ha!

But I'd like to hear positive reasons for a Tory vote rather than just 'because Labour/Corbyn/Abbott are so awful'. No-one is going to change my mind about voting Labour but I want to try and understand others' point of view.

Here are two questions for example:

Do you believe that a vote for the Conservatives genuinely helps the whole country (if so how?), and how do you respond to the left's accusation that Tory voters generally vote out of self-interest rather than for the many?

What is your personal reaction to pieces about how Tory cuts have affected vulnerable people like this one?

And please let's not pretend that most people vote for what's best for them, it's just Labour voters can cloak it in supposed principles. Of course there are some high earning lefties and some working class right wingers but basically the reason why the better off generally vote Torres and the lesser so vote Labour is that for both sections, one party does more for them. If you are on a lower income/on benefits then you want richer people to pay of their earnings in more taxes so you get more money in benefits be if working/disability or unemployment. You also want richer people to pay more into the systems (NHS/Education/transport etc) that you use more than them.
If you are a higher earner you don't want to pay more, especially as you probably know that the top 5% of the population which probably is you is already paying 49% of all taxes. You probably don't use services as much as others and so don't want to pay more. It's as simple as that and neither side should be allowed to claim some moral high ground for basically voting for what's best for them!

Gah - sorry some typos! Predictive text is a bugger!