Trump (Part 6)

[claig]

More on Trump

It is a Trump world and as the Modi saying goes

“Aab Ki Baar Trump Sarkar”

and as the Stump for Trump Sisters say

"Get on the Trump Train or get the hell out of the way"

Rock'n'roll

Darth I don't think he's been very clever, I think he is ruthlessly manipulative and opportunistic. I think he's actually showing that he's not clever by his lack of subtlety. This could be his downfall (hopefully).

'Trump is the establishment though'

Darth, we have been over this umpteen times in previous threads where it was conclusively proved that Trump was anti-establishment. They were all against him and their puppet politicians across the world were told to call him "unfit". It was the Deplorables wot won it for Trump and the elites who despised the Deplorables and Trump who were made a laughing stock by Trump, the outsider with zero political experience who was over generous in calling the entire shower "very, very stupid people" when Trump fans had a few more choice epithets for them printed on the tee-shirts and banners that they wore and took to what have become known as the "legendary" Trump rallies.

'The Political Elite Fights Trump -- And They're Still Not Winning'

www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/political-elite-fights-trump-they-re-still-losing-n657356

They couldn't beat the people, with all their money, their rigged polls, their "room full of liars" media, their puppet politicians, their pop stars and celebs. Not even Sir Bob, their usual stalwart, was up to the job.

Darth, we have been over this umpteen times in previous threads where it was conclusively proved that Trump was anti-establishment

In your head, maybe.
The only evidence you've given are his words. Words of a glorified con man.

You haven't onclusively proved anything Claig, Trump is the ultimate insider. He has made political donations to whom it was expedient to do so at the time, continually used the legal and financial system to his own ends, way beyond what the average person would be able to do so.

Saying "They couldn't beat the people, with all their money, their rigged polls, their "room full of liars" media" is flawed in two ways. One Hillary won the popular vote, by several million. So the "people" actually voted for Hillary.

Secondly Trump had all of these things too, he had money ( his own and other people's), he had media access, was covered continually. He isn't such an outsider that he hasn't been predicted to be a candidate for years.

Your "people vs the elite" narrative is fundamentally flawed by the fact that overwhelmingly the people voted for Hillary, and that Trump is an insider, he's just used the elite narrative for political expediency, and you bought it!

In no way will a Trump presidency benefit

' He has made political donations to whom it was expedient to do so at the time, continually used the legal and financial system to his own ends, way beyond what the average person would be able to do so. '

Darth, I will give you that. That is called being "street smart" and taking the Establishment to the cleaners. Trump is greatly admired for that by Trump fans.

' He has made political donations to whom it was expedient to do so at the time, continually used the legal and financial system to his own ends, way beyond what the average person would be able to do so. '

Not according to Trump. On hearing of Hillary's extravagant claims, Trump immediately took to twitter (his preferred communication medium) and pointed out that "if illegal votes were discounted" then as well as winning the Electoral College landslide, Trump would equally have won the popular vote.

'Secondly Trump had all of these things too, he had money ( his own and other people's)'

Not as much as Hillary who was backed by Wall Street, teh hedge funds, Silicon Valley, Hollywood and every puppet politician on the planet. Hillary heavily outspent Trump who outsmarted her and the teams.

'he had media access'

Trump created a media buzz due to his exciting, hilarious rallies while Hillary sent viewers to sleep, so Trump was covered more by the media, but their teams of the best and brightest tried to knock him constantly, however he outsmarted them and the people saw through their tricks

Your last line seems to have been cut off. If I get your drift and add the final two words "the elite" then I wholeheartedly agree with you i.e.

In no way will a Trump presidency benefit the elite

What you call street smart in Trump you call crooked in Hillary. What is it, then?

Trump was a businessman, Hillary was a politician with some sort of charidee that was taking donations for "pay for play" allegedly. Hillary was running the State Department, Trump was running a business.

Claig - I still titter when I recall Izzard's performance on QT in June. He made a complete dick of himself with Farage. Check this out.

and audience member tells IZZARD to shut up:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDiPAVPz1k4

Is it OK for businessmen to be crooked, then?

He's a politician now, and as far as I can tell he will have many conflicts of interest with his businesses. Will he be crooked, them?

Hillary won the popular vote Claig, anything else is just what aboutism, the "people" voted for Hilary. We could say, well if there weren't for a hundred thousand or so votes in Wisconsin and Michigan then Hillary would be president.

"That is called being "street smart" and taking the Establishment to the cleaners. Trump is greatly admired for that by Trump fans"

No its called buying political access and one of the key things that people who are in an elite do. Trump isn't street smart, he exploits his position of wealth and privilege, and then claims he is not part of the elite.

Trump will do things that will benefit the elite, in fact his tax cuts for the wealthiest and cuts to Corporation tax will do exactly that. The people who probably won't benefit much are the everyday souls that voted for him. He's also appointed a good lot of very wealthy and well connected people to his cabinet already.

On Trump and his media coverage btw, Trump has been a high profile celebrity media figure in the states for decades and he exploited this very well. Although he didn't spend as much as Hillary its true, he probably didn't need to because he already had a massive presence within the MSM.

Trump is the established elite, he's no man of the people, and the people who voted for him will not be better off.

Yes, Southallgirl, it was classic. The BBC and the Oxbridge teams thought that Izzard would be their trump card and that he would win it for them by shouting over Farage in the usual BBC way. But the teams soon realised that they had goofed and teh twitter reaction from teh people afterwards sent the elite into utter panic as they realised they only had two people left to save them, Sir Bob and Blair, they were on a wing and a prayer and it all ended in despair and according to reports "tears at Number Ten" and partying, celebrations and knees-ups across all of London's drinking dens.

Hillary won the popular vote - But USA has the electorial college system.

UKIP won the popular vote too - But because of the way our system is arranged UKIP gained just one seat in the House.

I see one dick in those clips and it's not Eddie.
It's the descendant of immigrants.

'Is it OK for businessmen to be crooked, then?'

"Street smart" are the words rather than crooked. Trump is notoriously litgious, so it is important to use words accurately when referring to the next President of the United States.

Oh yes. I saw the bedraggled Sir Bob on a tug on the Thames shouting thru a megaphone at fishermen. Look at this foto

www.thesun.co.uk/news/1286115/bizarre-brexit-boat-battle-breaks-out-between-nigel-farage-and-bob-geldof-on-the-river-thames/

What on earth was he thinking. I used to see him walking across Albert Bridge in Battersea. He lives close by to where I used to work.

"it is important to use words accurately when referring to the next President of the United States."

Unlike the President elect himself?

BTW Southall Girl, UKIP didn't win the popular vote, both Labour and the Tories won more votes than them.

The point about the popular vote is that more of the people voted for Hillary than voted for Trump. Selling it like its some sort of massive populist movement is inaccurate ( if we are having to be accurate Claig).

See this is where Partisanship gets you nowhere, the whole Geldolf thing was a debacle, but he was right about Farrage presenting himself as the defender of fishermen being fraudulent.

"Street smart" are the words rather than crooked. Trump is notoriously litgious, so it is important to use words accurately when referring to the next President of the United States.

Yes. Crooked. Per his own definition. That's the accurate word.

Street smart is not being taken by con men.

I see one dick in those clips and it's not Eddie. It's the descendant of immigrants.

No, it isnt. What has being a descendant of immigrants got to do with the current barely controlled immigration levels? His parents coming here was 50+ years ago, another age entirely.

Are you saying that because someone is descended from immigrants then they should forever more support immigration? If you are, then that is truly bonkers.

I'm saying that he happens to descend from immigrants.
He's a dick because he was scaremongering about immigration. When Eddie was pointing out to facts and actual figures.

And, BTW, I thought you were against silencing and telling people to shut up.

more of the people voted for Hillary than voted for Trump

Then it's up to America to amend the e.c. system. You cannot suspend the result just this one time. There may hv been other occasions in USA's past that caused the candidate with more votes to be the losing party. That's the system, what's the point of going on and on about it?

You're still not getting it! The point is that presenting Trump's victory as some sort of victory for "the people" when more of "the people" voted for the other candidate is just inaccurate.

Nearly as inaccurate as saying that Trump isn't part of the elite establishment.

Eddie was pointing out facts & figures given to him to learn. It was a regurgitation and he did well. When he was talking about net contribution , it was clear that this is standard-operating information given to him to recite. Only the well paid immigrants are net contributors. In fact, some Brits on average wages are not net contributors either, even though they work for years.

The taxes taken from immigrants that work, immediately go out in the form of tax credits, pension credits, assistance with HB, child benefit, discounted CTax, etc.

I know loads of EE and Baltics who have been here for at least 5 years, and I know that they are supported from the public purse in some shape or form.

Are you saying that because someone is descended from immigrants then they should forever more support immigration?

Sorry Southall, wrong again, the facts that Eddie was pointing to was that as a group EU immigrants are net contributors, yes you can say that individuals are not but that's different.

"And, BTW, I thought you were against silencing and telling people to shut up."

That's only when its in their favour, when it isn't you have to shut up and watch what you say because its persecuting them.

Are you saying that Eddie can't think for himself or interpret numbers?

And, yes, I think it's hypocritical to be so critical of immigration when you were an immigrant yourself, or your family. But I understand that he thinks that they were worthy, unlike most, who aren't French or German.