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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

An open letter to everyone who voted Conservative

557 replies

blacksunday · 10/05/2015 07:19

To everyone who voted conservative yesterday,

I hope you’re happy. Actually that’s a lie, I really don’t. But before you sit smugly down and give yourself a big pat on the back I’d like to ask you a few questions.

Do you think you haven’t benefitted from the system you are currently trying to break down? As a child, did you ever go to hospital? Have you had an education? Did you ever use a library? Have you ever been on a bus? If so, you have benefited from a system which subsidises facilities with taxes. And now you have, you are willing to take it away from everyone after you. Correct me if I’m wrong but that doesn’t seem very fair. You cannot have socialism and a support system when you need it but then be unwilling to support it for other people.

Now if you are someone who has used the private sector more than public services then I also want to know a few things. If you went to private school, or used private medical care as a child, did you pay for it yourself? Now I’m not asking if your parents paid for it, but you personally. I’m guessing the answer is no. So can you genuinely say you worked hard to get these privileges? No baby earns the right to an education. No child works hard to be born into a particular family who can afford healthcare. So why do you think one person is more deserving than another? If you value working hard and getting on how can you see this as fair? Do you really want to live in a world where children are deemed more worthy of education and healthcare based on what family they come from?

If you are someone who uses a lot of private, who are you? Are you one of the 1% who are currently getting richer? If so, are you ok with the fact that your benefit is someone else’s misery, someone’s poverty, someone’s lack of care? Are you ok with the fact that while you got a pay rise 900,000 people had to go to food banks because they literally didn’t have enough money to feed themselves to survive? Do you really believe that you work harder than these people?

If you aren’t one of these few people benefitting from this system then why have you voted for it? Conservatives use rhetoric of working hard and fairness but this is simply not the reality. If you start life without a lot, to get out of that is hard. “Success” stories are pinned up to show that if you work hard you get somewhere. But they are stories because they are anomalies. To come from a background of little education or money and to get a career you want is not the common way, and you can’t do it without a benefit system. We do not live in a system where if you work hard you get somewhere, the system the conservatives are creating means that if you start off well off you stay that way. Because someone who goes to a private school with tiny class sizes and one on one help does not have to work as hard as someone at an underachieving state school with over worked underpaid staff and huge classes. They just don’t.

Now if you are either one of these types of people you have to question whether you really do believe in what you have voted for. Because in voting conservative you are saying you are happy with the last 5 years. You are endorsing food banks. You are endorsing cutting care for the elderly and the mentally ill. You are endorsing a party where over half the MPs voted against gay marriage. You are saying yes to the NHS being privatised. You are saying you are happy with people being put off education based not on ability or passion but by money. You are saying yes to victimising the poor and disabled and scapegoating people based on where they come from. You are saying that you are ok with the incredible inequality in our country today and you are saying you want more of it.

I do not wish poverty on anyone. It is a cruel and harsh life. But what I do wish for you is that you at least experience it. If not first hand, that you witness the harsh trapping reality that is poverty. The gruelling cycle that doesn’t allow a parent to feed their children. That doesn’t allow for parents to feed themselves. And that you see that this is people who are working. People with jobs. And if they aren’t I hope you see that a life on benefits is not the picnic people make it out to be. Nobody wants to be on benefits. Maybe if you see this you will see what you have voted for.

And if you are ok with all of this then you make me sick. I can’t put it any other way. I am so ashamed to come from a country where this is apparently what the majority think. That the majority of people are too selfish to accept any form of tax rise to support those in our society who need help makes me so incredibly sad. Truly you should be ashamed of yourself that you can so heartlessly put yourself first and not see the consequences. I hope that in the next 5 years you fully appreciate what you did yesterday. I hope you know what you have supported and I hope one day you feel guilty. Because I am scared of what the next 5 years will bring and you should be too.

OP posts:
MrsCookieMonster · 10/05/2015 11:37

OP, The NHS is already being privatised. This started to happen under Labour and continued at an accelerated pace under the coalition. After five more years, the NHS will be unrecognisable
I am so sick of reading stuff like this on MN and elsewhere. There was no accelerated pace, the labour government privatised more of the NHS than the coalition did and that is a fact. Remember PFI that has crippled hospitals (I know it was introduced by John Majors government but it was only used on a wide scale basis by labour), was this not a version of privatisation i.e. companies getting profits from loaning to NHS trusts at ridiculous rates.

The comment made re foodbank use increase due to availability is not utter rubbish but of course it is not the only reason for the increase in the use of foodbanks and probably not even the major reason but it does explain part of the increase in use. The coalition govt would at least allow agencies to refer to foodbanks which was not allowed under the last labour govt as they did not want to encourage the use of them.

The 'bedroom tax' is not in theory unfair;

  • It is already in place in the private sector
  • the whole theory of social housing is that the people most in need should have the housing and if you have a mother whose children have all left home and she is living in a 4 bed house this should go to a young family. It is sad that an older person would have to leave their home and move somewhere smaller but I don't understand how socialists can disagree with this as it is the whole basis of social housing. I do agree it is currently not fair because I think there should have been some concessions;
  • If you have a disability or a disabled child you should be allowed an additional bedroom
  • You should only be charged the subsidy if you declined a smaller property 2 times as there is a shortage of 1 bed properties and it is not fair for people to be charged if they cannot get a smaller property.

I know you say you do not vote labour but as labour is the only other viable majority party I can only assume you would not be posting that there will be poverty, suicide etc for the next 5 years and telling people who voted for them that they make you sick if they had gotten a majority.

wigglylines · 10/05/2015 11:37

MozzchopsThirty nice anecdotal evidence about foodbanks there. Let's look at some actual figures from those on the front line shall we?

This chart - from this report on food banks by the Trussel Trust shows that foodbanks said that the top major significant factors driving demand at food banks are:

  1. Low income
  2. Administrative delays in receiving benefits
  3. Benefit sanctions
  4. Debt
  5. Stopping of Employment Support Allowance
An open letter to everyone who voted Conservative
Sparklingbrook · 10/05/2015 11:37

Apologies for moan-this is in the right topic. Didn't notice. Grin

Whatthebobbins · 10/05/2015 11:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

blacksunday · 10/05/2015 11:44

Almost nobody wants to claim benefits.

Oh come on, that is not true at all.

There are many people who need benefits, either through illness or injury, or a change in circumstances, and we are we should be proud that we live in a country where this is available.

That's not what I meant, obviously. And yes, we should be proud that social security is available. Unfortunately, it is being attacked.

However there are some people (and it is a small percentage) who claim benefits for no other reason than because they don't like the alternative - working for a living.

Yes, it is a very small percentage. The DWP estimates this at about < 5% of claimants for JSA and even less for Disability allowance.

So it's a complete red herring to talk about people 'languishing' on claimants, as if its a big social problem, when we spend hundreds of billions bailing out banks, billions on war and the war machine, millions giving MPs 'allowances' to spend on champagne, etc. etc.

OP posts:
wigglylines · 10/05/2015 11:45

If we look at the third top reason for Foodbanks referral - sanctions.
They have been brought in by this government.

People are sanctioned if they fail to meet the targets the Job Centre impose on them. They can have devastating effects on those who receive them, (homelessness, ill health and even death in some cases), and so you would hope they are being applied fairlym and with evidence that they work overall.

Are they? No. The evidence - if you care to look, is that sanctions cause massive hardship, and there is no evidence they work to improve things for anyone.

Sanctions are applied unfairly. As this whistleblower reports, Job Centre workers have targets to get people on sanctions, and people are sometime set up to fail so they can reach their targets.

See also A Selection of Especially Stupid Benefit Sanctions if you want a brief overview to give you an idea, or for more detail see this report commissioned by several UK churches, which is well worth a read.

clam · 10/05/2015 11:46

Grin Quint

bananaramadramallama · 10/05/2015 11:48

I also concur that most of the unwashed 'anarchists' and protesters I met (back in the 90s) were broadly middle class/UC.

As for:

...either our country is full of sociopaths or lots of you [Tory voters] don't really understand what you voted for.
and:

…I'm arguing that they [Tory voters] voted for psychopaths.

What a load of absolute horse shit.
Offensive, hysterical, unfounded horse shit.

To write off over a third of the population as either stupid or suffering from a personality disorder, and to proclaim that the Conservative party are all afflicted by a personality disorder is offensive in the extreme.

This is why the silent, hard working majority of people get fucked off, bored and stop engaging.

wigglylines · 10/05/2015 11:52

I can't believe we're talking about real suffering in society and you're making jokes about fucking carnations.

coffeecakeandgin · 10/05/2015 11:52

I can't take anyone seriously (OP) who says that the whole of the Conservative party are psychopaths. Reasoned discussion? No. You are doing a damn good job at encouraging Tory voters to carry on voting for their party with such ridiculous statements.

bringbacksideburns · 10/05/2015 11:52

Enough with these bloody threads now and I say that as a Labour voter. What we should be doing is looking at where we went wrong and learning from it. Painting all Tory voters as the devil isn't helpful. I actually know a couple and they are quite human! Mandelson made some good points this morning on TV. Not enough emphasis on Middle England and small businesses etc Trade Union money fixing votes so other candidate leaders aren't looked at. I'd like someone to start a thread asking what next for the Labour Party after the disaster on Scotland and who we can see leading them?

coffeecakeandgin · 10/05/2015 11:54

Wiggly and I can't believe what Banana has pointed out in her post. Perhaps that was a 'joke' too....

MozzchopsThirty · 10/05/2015 11:54

Wiggly I think you'll find that those who are working with families and authorising vouchers are the 'frontline'

MaraThonbar · 10/05/2015 11:55

Why is the anger so uniformly directed at voters? Where is the anger at Labour?

They had five years before this election campaign to present a valid alternative to the Tories in England, and the SNP in Scotland. They failed.

blacksunday · 10/05/2015 11:55

Don't overegg it. It's not like the majority of the public voted for the Tories.

Less than 25% did. The Tories didn't even win a majority of the vote share.

OP posts:
blacksunday · 10/05/2015 11:55

You're right, Labour were shit.

OP posts:
coffeecakeandgin · 10/05/2015 11:55

I listened to Mandelson too and despite not particularly liking him, I think he made perfect sense.

Labour can come back bigger and stronger if they let themselves.

HarryLimeFoxtrot · 10/05/2015 11:56

In a free and fair election millions of people exercised their democratic right to vote for a mainstream political party. Why is this seen as being reprehensible?

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 10/05/2015 11:56

Wiggly, so everyone has to have a sense of humour failure now? Right.

bananaramadramallama · 10/05/2015 11:57

bringback I've been reading up on Dan Jarvis (Labour MP for Barnsley Central) after he was mentioned on a fb link.

Someone like him would be a good proposition for the next Labour leader imo (and they need to get their act together on policies/future direction/core vote etc obviously).

blacksunday · 10/05/2015 11:57

To write off over a third of the population as either stupid or suffering from a personality disorder,

A quarter of the population voted Tory. Just to clear that up.

OP posts:
coffeecakeandgin · 10/05/2015 11:58

Totally incorrect blacksunday See here

bananaramadramallama · 10/05/2015 11:59

The Tories won more of the vote share than any other single party OP.

wigglylines · 10/05/2015 11:59

"To write off over a third of the population"

Well for a start, the Tories got in on something like 20% of the population actually voting for them.

36.9% of people who voted voted Tory. That doesn't mean the proportion of Tory votes in the whole population is that high.

Secondly, my point was that I believe the population are generally misinformed, not sociopaths.

You can get offended all you like, but what if it's actually true?

I believe it to be so, and the link the OP posted above backs it up with evidence. Maybe you should try reading it. British Public Wrong About Everything, Survey Shows If you bother to read it, you'll notice that the kinds of things the British public are so wrong about are exactly the kinds of stories the Murdoch press, and Tory politicians have been going on about these last few years.

And, for the record, I am not saying people are stupid. I'm saying humans, in general, are easily manipulated by forces like the media. It's why advertising is such big business. No one likes to accept it works on them, but it does.

The Tory propaganda is just that, propaganda, and people seem to have swallowed it, for now at least.

DarylDixonsDarlin · 10/05/2015 12:00

barristas
Are these a new breed of barristers, who have now been forced to take on second jobs in coffee shops as the Conservative government has taken so much off them in tax its left them really poor? Grin

I don't want to pay more tax, it's not greedy to ask to keep at least 60% of what I earn. It is greedy to ask people who work their socks off to subsidise people who don't want to do more than the minimum work necessary to claim some benefits

totally agree with this.