Labour getting things right, Tories getting things wrong: discuss!

[GibberingFlapdoodle]

I liked these news stories about Labour pledging to end unpaid internships and stopping firms exploiting foreign workers and undermining the minimum wage (both from BBC).

Seems to be further evidence of Labour starting to support working class people over the rich again at long last. Meanwhile the Tories have put out that ridiculous desperate idea about increasing the hated right-to-buy of what little social housing remains (I won't link it as there've been threads already.

I never understood why so many people think Cameron is wonderful while Milliband is terrible. His (Cameron's) past remarks revealing his complete ignorance of how an economy runs on debt, his pathetic attempts to please the media at the time of the floods last winter, more recently his talk of putting open back doors in all IT encryption (including your online shopping and banking) reveal an incompetent fool who has not got a clue how to run anything or handle ordinary people. Presumably, from what people have told me, he smiles nicely.

Any comments?

Guess this is two threads in one!

The answer is the Tory press. Every headline, every photograph carefully orchestrated to fulfill a purpose - that to promote their political outcome. Their power lies in their belief that the public believe in the printed word and trust that many voters will only refer to the drip, drip effect rather than the underlying facts.

Labour stood up to Murdoch and Murdoch rules the press. He generally decides who we get as a prime minister.

It would be nice if this election was different.

I've frequently heard that Cameron is supposed to be oh-so-charismatic, which I translate as 'smiling nicely'.... that isn't just the written word, it's from tv appearances and so on. Though appearances are in the eye of the beholder and to me increasingly he just looks like an idiotically grinnijg schoolboy playing pranks with peoples' lives... I cold say that of other tories too, IDS.

What do people think of this apparent Labour drift back to the left? Is it merely an insincere polish? I can't quite decide. They still have far too many of the same tory attitudes for my liking, not enough joined-up thinking. They seem sincere when they pick up individual problems though.

Milliband was known as "Red Ed". Like their father their thinking was developed along left ideas.

I agree Gibbering but will still vote for them. It's a 3 horse race round my parts and one of the horses is Farage.

Miliband is a clueless chump.

I suppose he's well suited to the voters he's targeting, though.

Aw shelley no need to get nasty! #millifand

I thought "Red Ed" was coined by the Daily Mail?

I see 38 degrees have sent something round concerning the amount of media influence in this campaign.

Shelly, learn how to debate ideas without insults. No one knows everything.

I would just say LABOUR would not be as cruel to poor people as Camerons Tories have been. (it has at times seemed like cruelty for
cruelties sake.. )

it was Tory Home Sec Teresa May, who revived the the "Nasty Tory party" quote. If she repeats it during the election campaign Cameron would be temted to sack her

Firms have been undermining the minimum wage since it was brought in. Lots of low paid workers "employed" by foreign agencies and therefore not subject to minimum wage laws. Why didn't Labour do anything about it last time they were in power?

I would just say LABOUR would not be as cruel to poor people as Camerons Tories have been. (it has at times seemed like cruelty for
cruelties sake.. )

I'd argue that trapping thousands on benefits, getting rid of the 10p tax rate, bankrupting the country and destroying the economy , upping unemployment and starting an illegal war are all pretty cruel acts towards poor people but maybe I just see things differently, eh?

Having said that to Shelly I would hereby like to add the words 'appear to' between " (including your shopping and banking) " and "reveal" in my op...

Gnightjimbob, I see very little difference between New Labour and Tories of any time, they are/ were all neo-liberalist capitalists and therefore all thought that exploitation and vast inequality is an essential part of life. I'm interested in whether New Labour have changed any. I know the Tories haven't.

i can get really annoyed about New Labour because in their conversion they betrayed the poor, confused everyone, muddied all waters, and bear a large responsibility for destroying all faith in politics and politicians I think.

Tories have raised substantially the personal tax allowance which benefits massively the working poor.

Labour screwed over the working poor in every way imaginable.

Raising tax allowance... will that not raise the possibiity of future tory goverments saying 'you're not paying into the system, so you don't deserve anything back out'? I think it was a bad idea myself, I'd rather wages were upped and income inequality flattened and everybody contributed more.

I remember New Labour's stated commitment to lifelong learning with affection at least. Sure there were a few other good points...

Theyre damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I personally don't support the raising of the personal allowance - I think it risks disenfranchising people. People will much more likely hold their public servants/services to account when they can see that direct taxation is coming from their pay packet to pay for them.

I'd much rather see a personal allowance and then a flat tax (for income, capial, etc.) intorduced.

I've lived in some pretty 'colourful' places over the years. I know from personal experience and observation that Labour's (perhaps well intentioned) policies have an utterly devestating effect on those they profess to want to help.

Does it really matter about whether politions smile in the right places?

Policies are what will affect lives.Labour policies on the NHS,0 hour contracts,paying interns etc etc will make a good impact on ordinary peoples' lives.

Tories have proved in the last 5 years what they are about,food banks while millionaires get tax cut. Tutuion fees trebled under them. Promising 12 billion cuts-these things will really matter when election is over. Cameron's (shifty) smile won't change that

Except perhaps, the 60% of people who actually like zero hours contracts??

Labour didn't say they would not ban 0 hour contracts Labour have said they will bring in new rights -

an employee who has worked regular hours for 3 month will be intitled to a fixed hour contract, if wanted,
Ban employers expecting employees to be avaiablle on the off chance there will be work,
Won't be made to work for only one employer
Eployees who have their shifts changed at short notice they will recieve compensation from their employer.
Exploition is what some employers are doing.We all know when a 0 hour contract works and when it doesn't. The above will help

Of course the Tories are the nasty party. Just as in 1979 in 2010 they were voted in after Labour crashed the economy and the Tories have to shovel up the detritus.

"Dear Chief Secretary, I'm afraid that there is no money. Kind regards and good luck." (Liam Byrne). Would he have left that note for Ed Balls?

I really wanted Labour to win in 2010 so they had to do their own dirty work for once. Yes, it was the bastard bankers who proved a mess too far - but some contingency left in the treasury coffers would have help a bit.

Now it looks as if we may repeat the whole cycle.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." That Einstein bloke knew a thing or two.

Shelly, learn how to debate ideas without insults. No one knows everything.

Haha. Brilliant. You certainly seem to think you know everything regarding comparisons between your beloved Labour Party and the Conservatives.

You've started this thread with no intention of debating anything whatsoever. Pathetic.

...while millionaires get tax cut

That's a Labour red herring you've fallen for.

The 50p rate was only brought in just before the 2010 election.

Why didn't Labour bring it in sooner if it's a fair and just way of raising money to give away?

Labour had also stated in their manifesto that they would not increase income tax rates but they still did it.

One thing is for sure, OH and I will start avoiding all the taxes we possibly can if the 50p rate is reinstated. That's something we have never done before. In fact, until last year we didn't even use ISAs but I'm determined that if Labour get in they will have as little of our money to waste as possible.

Shelly, my beloved labour party??

Fyi my closest match politically are the greens and they are who I intend to vote for this time. They're the only people who have noticed that we cannot survive without a healthy environment and have some fairly joined-up thinking around social issues: the only problems I have with them is that they're very middle class, so a bit blind at times, and anti-feminist.

I am nevertheless following Labour's apparent return to the left with interest for its own sake and because they are still viewed as the mainstream left party, Blair and new Labour notwithstanding, and are just a bit likely to be a major player in what I hope will be a left-wing coalition. I started the thread largely to ask what other people are making of their shift back left and whether it's real or not, and got a bit carried away with the personal angles which exasperate me. Politics should be about the policies not the face on the cover.