Labour getting things right, Tories getting things wrong: discuss!

[GibberingFlapdoodle]

I liked these news stories about Labour pledging to end unpaid internships and stopping firms exploiting foreign workers and undermining the minimum wage (both from BBC).

Seems to be further evidence of Labour starting to support working class people over the rich again at long last. Meanwhile the Tories have put out that ridiculous desperate idea about increasing the hated right-to-buy of what little social housing remains (I won't link it as there've been threads already.

I never understood why so many people think Cameron is wonderful while Milliband is terrible. His (Cameron's) past remarks revealing his complete ignorance of how an economy runs on debt, his pathetic attempts to please the media at the time of the floods last winter, more recently his talk of putting open back doors in all IT encryption (including your online shopping and banking) reveal an incompetent fool who has not got a clue how to run anything or handle ordinary people. Presumably, from what people have told me, he smiles nicely.

Any comments?

Grimble, sorry, but you are just spouting the same old tory propaganda regarding their supposed ability with economics. Here's a guardian piece on where they've mucked up the economy www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2015/apr/19/tory-long-term-economic-plan-not-even-the-propaganda-is-working

And you can also look at this nice eurostat graph on our current account ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/graph.do;jsessionid=N7LlVWatZtl9I8lYZtPa1fAyN9T35Yo1-4PLhOWuyA69U10DgFtC!-1700085361?tab=graph&plugin=0&language=en&pcode=tec00043&toolbox=type
If that works. I did find one which compared performance over time the other day but I can't lay my hands on it right now. Not only has the current account increased under the tories, so that we now have the biggest deficit in the eu, it is the worst performance ever over time. Only Italy and Spain were worse, and look, they're much better now.

current account deficit increased under the tories, I mean.

This childish idea of 'good' and 'bad' makes me despair .... People always read newspapers and seek out 'info' which support the views they hold.

This idea of good and bad - the fact is the shadow parties can promise and offer the world and make big statements - it never comes to anything and is just hot air.

One person doesn't make the political party - there are all factions to consider in a party and I don't think there is too much separating the big two like before.

knacktoflying, fair enough, that's true about seeking support. But when 2/3rds of professional economists tell you that something is going wrong with the economy, plus most - virtually all in public health that I'm aware of - of the academic research tells you there are serious social issues being created, in short when the evidence stacks up that we're on a road to wrack and ruin, it's wise to take notice. The tories are not listening at all. Labour might be.

Tax thresholds raised....generally agreed to be a liberal policy.

Bedroom Tax? Sounds like Tory polics.

TOXIC benefit sanctions Soounds like Iain Duncan Smith (Was he the quiet man?)

Tis sad that cameron offered IDS another ministry at last reshuffle and IDS said "No way, Dave" Interesting if he shud have the clout to pull it off

But can he make the computer system work? A lot of big govt computer systems have failed. Anyone know why?

IDS should be in jail.

Fyi my closest match politically are the greens and they are who I intend to vote for this time.

We should all be thankful that they haven't got a hope in hell of getting into power.

Have you seen their economic policies?

They really are utterly bonkers. How on earth they expect their wealth tax to reap £20-40bn per year is anyone's guess.

The French have a much more savage wealth tax and that raises around £4bn and is set to decline as wealthy people continue to leave the country.

The greens would very quickly run out of other people's money to waste.

Gibbering: I don't think I have fallen for "Tory propaganda" as you assert, any more than you have fallen for left-wing propaganda, which is something I wouldn't personally have chosen to say. Please can we assume that both of us have the ability to think for ourselves?

I stand by what I believe, particularly relating to my experience of working during the 1970s and the years we spent as the "sick man" of Europe (not my phrase). A thriving Labour led economy would not have needed a $3.9 billion bale out in 1976 from the IMF to stop it going bankrupt.

I see the Eurostat figures over time (which I have actually sourced) showed a negative currency balance under the last Labour government as well. The UK has notoriously - at least ever since I first voted in 1964 (you had to be 21 to vote then) - had balance of payments difficulties though that particular stat, along with inflation, loomed much larger as an election issue in the 60s and 70s than it does today.

I am pleased to hear that Spain and Italy appear to be dragging themselves out of the mire at last. But would I swop the UK economy for theirs? Nah.

Sorry for late reply, busy weekend. I promise to try harder to tidy up the toys I throw out of my pram a bit quicker in future.

Grimble, point taken, wrist duly slapped. There were problems in the 70s due to external oil shocks as I recall. I also read something recently about it being linked to deregulation as the US dollar stopped being pegged to gold (or anything else real) swhich destabilised matters, but I'm way out of my depth on fiscal policy. The deficit is much larger now than it was -briefly, it is now pretty consistently bad - in the 60s. As far as whether it's New Labour's doing or the Tories, I can't see a great dealof difference between the two tbh and therefore that doesn't greatly interest me, except to wonder if there will be a difference in the future. I will have to wait and see,or find out more about, exactly what consequences will arise from it.

The greens, well yes the wealth tax is a bit strange. Embarassingly so. I don't know whether that is the amount they think could be generated if tax avoidance wasn't routinely practised - tax avoidance needs to be addressed urgently at at least a European level, unfortunately the people we're asking to address it are usually well-off and avoiders themselves in one form or another. Perhaps theyjust missed a decimal point. It's a sign of basic error or inexperience either way. But I'm not seeing experience and professionalism as an unmixed blessing in politicians at the moment anyway (see tax avoidance comments ). Plus they are still the only people who are even actually looking seriously at the real social and environmental effects our globalised over-privatised economy is causing. Maybe they don't have all the answers in place yet, but they are asking the right questions and that is a good place to start. Not asking those questions, pretending we can hide our heads in the sand and continue with this status quo forever, is the real bonkers approach to me.

I don't expect them to win, I just want more of those questions being asked and the answers taken seriously in parliament.

I am also interested in labours apparent move leftwards.
It is long overdue. The left was totally abandoned under New Labour, leaving a gaping space and Ed Miliband has had years to re-claim that space. He has left it too long paying more attention to the wealth-and-business lobbiests during these years.

All trust in politics has gone imo. I basically wait with baited breath to see what happens.

Interesting to see the usual Tory white about businesses and the wealthy leaving Britain in their droves. Good i say! If the wealthy all leave, their influence leaves with them. Bring the NHS (etc) back into true public ownership, scrap the PFI's (brought in by New Labour not True Labour) that are destroying the system.

New Labour screwed up big time. But i still perhaps naively believe they can return to their roots in the socialist/Union movement.

White = shite !

Boris Johnson trying to argue that introducing protection for tenants in fixed rent contracts will "drive people out of the rental market" HA what planet is he on.

But i still perhaps naively believe they can return to their roots in the socialist/Union movement.

Yes, wouldn't that be marvellous!

Back to the glory years of 1970s British 'industry'.

And a for good measure.

I think the glory years of the 1970s are a misnomer (as you presumably intended). However our economy is now dangerously reliant on the unstable financial sector and for all the problems of the manufacturing industry they were not glorified casinos betting on everyone else's future. Since all this was shut down in the Thatcherite economic miracle (not) we have had record balance of payments deficits