Help - tempted to vote Tory, against my long held values! Convince me otherwise!

[Flingmoo]

Right, excuse my poor understanding of politics, I'm just after some friendly advice.

I'm from a working class family who would rather die than vote Tory. I've done well in life and now have a much better career than my parents ever had, but still I've always been a bit of a Guardian reading lefty who also hated the Tories. I sort of used to be a Lib Dem, but since the big tuition fees betrayal I've been flitting between Greens and Labour.

However I am getting this horrible niggling feeling that perhaps the Tories have done a half decent job... Unemployment down, taxes down, hopefully reducing inheritance tax, "bedroom tax", extended help to buy, all good stuff IMHO.

But theres a lot of stuff I don't agree with:

• Not impressed at the way the NHS is going
• Not happy about sale of Royal Mail
• Corporate tax dodgers not dealt with
• David Cameron is a slimy twat

Er, thought there was more but can't think of any other points.

Anyway, please convince me to vote for a different party. I'm rather fond of the Greens but isnt it a wasted vote? Miliband seems a bit limp. Lib Dems not to be trusted anymore after Cleggs big fat porky pies last time. UKIP is a massive no no for me and I'd happily punch Farage in the face if I were allowed to... So who do I vote for?

Osborne also said:
I fear that much of this regulation has been burdensome, complex and makes cross-border market penetration more difficult. This is exactly the wrong direction in which Europe should be heading and it threatens the global competitiveness of the City of London.

Major companies can pack up and move anywhere in the world if faced with damaging regulations. We have already seen it happen in the United States, with the Sarbanes-Oxley regulations that were hastily introduced after the Enron scandal and which have led to international companies delisting and moving elsewhere.

London has benefited enormously from America's short-sightedness and it would be foolish of us to make the same mistake.

Ageed - Sarbanes-Oxley was a v expensive unnecessary piece of legislation that had nothing to do with the financial crisis, and made no difference in the US, so burdensome and complex.
Just because you believe some regulation is unnecessary, you do not believe all is unnecessary. As quoted above, they wanted to strengthen bank liquidy regulation, which was the cause of the crisis.

I love how cdtaylornats equates nurses , doctors and underpaid NHS workers who are part of a union ( who might have some minimal ability to stick up for their working rights) with Capitalist medical healthcare companies designed to make profit out of the NHS, but then if your a Tory all part of the old boys network I guess so perfectly understandable....

apple c.60% of NHS money goes to private companies who make a profit.

Hanna It expresses concern that the BoE was not the banking regulator so could not act in time, or prevent banks taking excessive risks.
Thus, when Northern Rock needed money, the FSA, the regulator could do nothing. It was the regulatory tri-partate system which caused the panic, and this was opposed by the Conservatives.
Other regulation, such as SoX, is excessive and unnecessary. The banks did not have too little regulation, just not enough of the right regulation.

Trouble is that whoever gets in the middle will get squeezed as usual.

In terms of the NHS our personal experience is that it is now easier for us to get a GP appointment then under labour. It was labour who closed and mothballed our local A&E. I have spent a few years as a SAHM during which time a had a part time job under a zero hour contract teaching swimming and it was great whilst it lasted. My kids are now old enough for me to go back to full time work which I have now done but the zero hours contract enabled me to work when it suited our family circumstances at the time. I think that sometimes life is what you make of it. Of course it would be great if there was no need for food banks and if there was unlimited money for the NHS but as I family where both parents work I'm worried of tax increases under labour. I remember Labour telling us there would be no tax increase only for them to raise national insurance instead. Also I can not take Ed Milliband seriously.

I mention Sox because that is the specific example of over-regulation you quoted from Osbourne. As I said earlier, we do not know what would have happened under a Conservative government, but the crash was not inevitable, was not global, and, as admitted by Milliband, the Labour government's fault.

I honestly feel like I'm living on another planet to the OP. How could anyone possibly consider the Bedroom Tax to be a good thing? What newspapers are you reading? Where are you getting your information from? I don't think that particular policy has had a single positive write up that I know of...

OP, you need to learn by doing. Get yourself out of your bubble and go down to your local homeless shelter or foodbank. Talk to people about how they got there and then see if you can join up the dots. Is there a connection between their poverty and the tories? Is there a causal relationship. We can't do your thinking for you, and thinking will only get you so far - you need to actually experience the harsh realities of being poor or disabled or abused under a neo liberal government.

Then go and vote the way your conscience dictates, assuming you have one.

Mamuska Camerooner 5 years bashing the poor with Bedroom Tax and toxic benefit sanctions. (often with no rationale or mistaken)

I( dont want 5 more years of that. Admittedly some half rich people have done well. But some middle class people are suffering.

I dont know cameron personally Privately he may be donating to Food Banks. (who knows?) Big TV gig on Thursday)

I've pretty much held Conservative values ever since I can remember. And right now I feel very much the OP.

I know there's a lot of differing opinions about policies but to be fair there'll never be a policy everyone will agree upon.

David Cameron projects about as much understand of the plight of the average working family as I understand about nuclear physics. He's utterly weak and shown he is a coward by running away from a head to head debate.

The Tories haven't delivered on anywhere near the amount of cuts they promised (and we NEED) so rather than five years of austerity we now have ten. Thanks a fucking bunch.

Policy-wise the economy has recovered and is doing very well on the whole (compared with our neighbours). Yes lots of it is low paid and insecure work but compared with our French, Greek, Spanish neighbours we're doing well and I'd rather take low paid work than the seeming alternative of no work. The challenge for the next government is to build on this and create higher value jobs. But that takes time since you need to attract high tech firms and you can only do that if you have a high tech pool of employees which means raising school standards. Despite what newspapers will have you believe you can't just create 10,000 new highly paid jobs by passing a law or two.

Anyway. Whilst I dislike DC and his ilk, the bottom line comes down to this. What alternative do we really have?

Ed as PM? Don't make me laugh. He's even worse and a champagne socialist.

UKIP? As a family of immigrants I'd rather rot in hell.

Lib Dems? - Who?

So it seems in May I won't be voting for the party I want the most. But merely the least worst choice.

Give me a decent alternative! I'd vote for them.

Well it only matters if you are in a marginal seat. So toss a coin or close your eyes take a stab with the grubby (and loads of people are in your position. A lt of the 25 per cent who dont bother to vote,)

Some could form a party called "We Are for people who Usually stay at home" If they get 25 per cent , they will have a say in government

Seriously, its the young who are big non-voters. They get ignored. And the elderly were treated better by Daves Coalition mob.

I vote in all elections out of habit.

Calling Ed a champagne socialist is hardly fair he went to a normal school ( London comp) as far as I'm aware, didn't have a privileged Eton education. Ok he went to Oxford but would like to think he got there on merit, and I don't think he was connected to Bullingdon as are most of the Tory male front bench.

I have never voted Conservative in my life but I am voting for their local candidate, here near St Andrews because he is the only one who has actually pulled his finger out and made a difference. Am I therefore a Conservative? No, there is still much which they do that I don't like. Whilst still a private citizen, he organised a Job's Fair and almost 100 local people found jobs, no fuss, no budget, no committee's or working parties, just did it. He founded an organisation to help local people start up new businesses, found commercial sponsors, got no government support. He entered a national competition to gain mobile boosters for a rural village, won and they are now having it installed. No fuss, just did it.

What I cannot support is any form of deal with the SNP. They have one focus, independence. Doesnt matter how full of holes their policies are, doesnt matter who gets hurt, they keep on the same road. They held back money from the NHS to make things worse than they should have been, blaming it on Westminster cuts but they chose not to spend the money. They talk of foodbanks, but are spending £26m on converting road signs to Gaelic and English, when less than 1.5% speak it and the area I live in has never spoken it. They spend billions on wind turbines, including £57m on keeping turbines switched off and their former special adviser who is hoping to be our MP walks from that job into a lobbying organisation for... wind turbines. Anyone who believes their rhetoric would do well to study the history of interwar Germany. They have built the whole thing on soundbites, swap Jews for No voters and see the similarities. This has become a very ugly place, where I have been spat at in the street and called a traitor because I, unlike so many of their supporters, just dont believe them. When they under deliver, its Westminsters fault, when something goes ok, its because they are the chosen people. Before any flaming starts, I am not wealthy, I live in a rented house, earlier this week I had 92p to my name until my other half is paid in over a week. Unlike the SNP I do not believe that people in Liverpool, Cornwall or Norfolk are any different to me.

They are planning a state guardian for every child in Scotland, who will be able to interfere in your childs life. The closing date for consultation is 1 May, hidden behind the election noise. Wake up people, there are sinister people amongst us. Shouting foodbanks, poverty, rich tories is all to divert people's gaze from their real agenda, to destroy our country, by that I mean the UK. Only this week a leaked document boasted how they would go to Westminster and after the UK economy flatlined, they would grab independence. What about the millions of lives ruined if they engineer financial meltdown? Doesnt matter when all you really want is independence. Their leader in the 1960s, Arthur Donaldson, planned to cosy up to the Nazi's to run Scotland as a Reich outpost and leave England to ruination. That is how single minded they are about independence. I am only glad my parents arent alive to see what has happened to the country they both loved so much.

'They are planning a state guardian for every child in Scotland, who will be able to interfere in your childs life. The closing date for consultation is 1 May, hidden behind the election noise.'

UKIP thankfully oppose this. But what about the rest of the Establishment parties? How did it get this far?

"punch Farage in the face' you need help, not advice on political parties!! In any case how are you going to get unbiased views on mumsnet?

'In any case how are you going to get unbiased views on mumsnet?'

ironmaiden999, good to see you again, but the above quote is not strictlly true. My posts have no bias!

'a state guardian' sounds very Stalinist to me! Not surprised as the SNP, make
Miliband look like a Tory.

Masueuk I enjoyed your post, most people don't know what's going on in Scotland (including myself) and perhaps they should. Nicola Sturgeon has been giving a lot of BBC airtime, unlike UKIP who were not even on a debate last night about the armed forces, typical BBC!

Certainly Claig, your posts are not biased!

Check out no2np.org/ It is truly terrifying. Also planning state run nurseries.... it is like a nightmare. Where are they going to get the money to supply all these people, they say oh it will be teachers and social workers and prison officer (!!!) but they are already run off their feet. Children who are really at risk of harm (thankfully the minority) will be even more at risk as forms will need to be filled in, reports written, boxes ticked for the vast majority who do not need any state interference. If they have to employ 1000s of "guardians" how can they ensure that the people applying arent in it for... well you can guess. It actually makes me feel physically sick that so many people are wandering blind into the chamber. Most of our children do not need this, it is of no benefit to them or their families. Can you imagine, your nosey neighbour contacting the State Guardian service to tell them your child was screaming, with no appreciation of the realities of parenting. Its like the Stasi or KGB or Gestapo, people watching people and reporting to the state. Not to the NSPCC, which does great work, but the state. Read the actual plans.

The next three paras are from their document.

The Act allows information to be shared even if it breaches a duty of confidentiality (though restrictions apply in relation to the onward disclosure of such information). Where there is a duty of confidentiality it would be expected that the sharer of the information would discuss the matter with the child and take their views into account, only breaching confidentiality where it is necessary to promote, support or safeguard the child's wellbeing. The guidance will explain what a duty of confidentiality means in practice.

Professionals need to decide what is relevant, proportionate and necessary to share. Passing on all information at a high level of detail may not be appropriate or justified.
Information will not automatically follow the child. At each transition point (e.g. at school age or when moving school) a new Named Person will be appointed. A decision must be made, by the Named Person service provider, as to what should and what should not be shared with the new Named Person service provider in respect of a child's needs.

HOW IS THIS HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTRY? WAKE UP. Tell anyone who is thinking of voting SNP about this. They promise the moon and plan to deliver the Stasi

'It is truly terrifying'

I agree. Are the Conservatives actually doing anything about this or are they too politically correct to voice any objection?

UKIP are against it. David Coburn is anti this.

Yes, they are no2np.org/tag/ruth-davidson/ check it out