Help - tempted to vote Tory, against my long held values! Convince me otherwise!

[Flingmoo]

Right, excuse my poor understanding of politics, I'm just after some friendly advice.

I'm from a working class family who would rather die than vote Tory. I've done well in life and now have a much better career than my parents ever had, but still I've always been a bit of a Guardian reading lefty who also hated the Tories. I sort of used to be a Lib Dem, but since the big tuition fees betrayal I've been flitting between Greens and Labour.

However I am getting this horrible niggling feeling that perhaps the Tories have done a half decent job... Unemployment down, taxes down, hopefully reducing inheritance tax, "bedroom tax", extended help to buy, all good stuff IMHO.

But theres a lot of stuff I don't agree with:

• Not impressed at the way the NHS is going
• Not happy about sale of Royal Mail
• Corporate tax dodgers not dealt with
• David Cameron is a slimy twat

Er, thought there was more but can't think of any other points.

Anyway, please convince me to vote for a different party. I'm rather fond of the Greens but isnt it a wasted vote? Miliband seems a bit limp. Lib Dems not to be trusted anymore after Cleggs big fat porky pies last time. UKIP is a massive no no for me and I'd happily punch Farage in the face if I were allowed to... So who do I vote for?

There are no policies that lead DIRECTLY to the deaths of vulnerable people. That you prefer to exaggerate wildly and rely on a handful of anecdotes as 'proof' and that you use the sort of highly emotive language that is usually reserved for tabloid hysteria and scaremongering is not something I can have any respect for.

there are no policies that lead directly to the deaths of vulnerable people

1. Quotas in the office to impose sanctions - this is widely reported. People are being sanctioned for going to job interviews, no money for 2 weeks.

1. Deliberate policy to not tell people about emergency payments (used to be crisis loans) when being sanctioned or there's a delay to the start of benefits.

1. Atos have quotas to get people off benefits and are finding terminally ill and severely disabled fit to work.

The above policies result in starvation, death and most importantly, suicide.

The government will be found at fault in this. They will be sued. There will be enquiries where they're found to be breaching human rights legislation.

Well for a start you might reexamine the idea that the Tories have done a good job on the economy. First of all they destroyed consumer confidence by telling people the UK was just like Greece (ludicrous), then they took an economy that was growing in 2010 and plunged it back into recession by imposing austerity measures for purely ideological reasons (and which they later abandoned). They have failed to eradicate the deficit as they claimed they would and have doubled the national debt while failing to address massive structural problems in our economy (our massive current account deficit, for example). Suggest you read Simon Wren-Lewis on 'mediamacro' or Fraser Nelson in the Spectator (hardly a lefty) on this. And as for the economic absurdity that is Help To Buy Votes...

Austerity for purely ideological reasons?

Oh FFS. Really...?!

Laurie - I worked in gov ( political not civil service ) from 2009-2013 then journalism. This is my 2 cents but I know by no means accurate.

ATOS are a scandal. Atos have made bloody awful decisions for a long time that have damaged lives but also heavily cost taxpayers via appeals etc.
However, you cannot blame Tories for ATOS. They hold the contract and did under Labour.

No one will go to jail over this.

George Osborne did a fabulous sakes job with his budget speech.
It sounded great, with all the box ticking eg: North mentioned? Check: quip about The great county of Yorkshire's employment level rising more than France's.
Well there was an unemployment rise in France, so if it fell in Yorkshire even by one person it was greater.
Look past the rhetoric.
Look at the facts, not just the statistics they want you to see.
Pp have posted some good links.

sales job.

2.5 million new jobs, record employment

specifically: Between 2010 and 2013, the number of people employed in Yorkshire increased by 76,400 - while over the same period, employment in France increased by 66,000, data from Eurostat show.

Whats yr MP like, OP? Amd the other candidates?

Nhs has been half demolished, this process cost an absolute fortune and left a semoralised staff in disarray. cameron totally wrong on Europe, in my book. And the free schools wank malarky, what is that reallym???!
But he is rightly overhauling the benefits system, employment rate seems improved. And he really isnt a slimy twat. Privileged, yes, but he knows and appreciates that. He is also a decent man with a stellar education and intellect. Which helps as PM. Find Labour hardly any different. Was a natural Lib Dem, but what now ?

Postexpatlimbo David Cameron himself may not be that obnoxious (possibly, we're not personally acquainted) but there are a hell of a lot of slimy twats sitting on the benches behind him, who don't appreciate their privilege.

IMO the benefit changes (the conversion to Universal Credit) are as you have described NHS changes, a lot of expensive pissing about that won't actually improve anything.

I think the more Lib Dems we can get in gov't, the better insurance we have against the more ideologically-driven wacky ideas of either Tory or Labour.

I mean, eg the Tories wanted to make it OK to sack workers instantly for any reason - WTF? 'Er, boss, should this fire exit really be padlocked shut?' 'Don't bother coming in tomorrow, Steve.'
And Labour, despite their image, are drawn to interesting wheezes like PFI and not very big on civil liberties.

"He is also a decent man with a stellar education and intellect."

If you were talking about Farage then I couldn't disagree with you, but not Etonian Cameron. He has had the best education that money can buy but it seems to have passed him by. Tim Dim But Nice springs to mind.

"David Cameron's ignorance over Magna Carta and Rule Britannia exposed"
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9571852/David-Camerons-ignorance-over-Magna-Carta-and-Rule-Britannia-exposed.html

I think the problem is that the radio and TV news give lots and lots of coverage to two-line soundbites of Cameron and Osborne declaring, with superbly confident smugness, that unemployment is down and the economy is up, with very little further analysis. So this is what the average person, without the time or inclination to dig further, takes at face value.

Look a little further, and the whole narrative starts to fall apart. The number of people claiming unemployment benefits may well be down, but how many of these have found decent jobs, as opposed to earning very little as self employed and being topped up by tax credits, on zero hours contracts, workfare, or having their benefits sanctioned?

Similarly, when this Government has borrowed more than any of the preceding ones, where do we get the idea that they're any good with the economy? Oh yeah, because they told us so

You lost me at "bedroom tax"

So, some people have a spare room in their houses, for lots of different reasons. Those reasons include having a disabled child who needs the extra space.

The Tories answer is to effectively tax them on this. What action are they hoping to produce by this -that lots of people will pack up and move to smaller premises? Leaving homes they've grown up in? Suddenly everyone will be in houses with exactly the number of rooms as minimumly feasible? Who funds all the costs associated with moving!

Is this really a huge problem? Why have the Tories made it seem like it is?

I'm a forriner so can't actually vote but DH can, anyway we've talked about the election and as a couple would probably be better off under the Tories but then I remember this quote...

“The True Measure of Any Society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members” – Ghandi (which I know, has been phrased in lots of different ways and attributed to lots of different people, but I think is a really good message)

Anyway that's how I try to make decisions (I can vote in local, eu and my own countries elections). I try to think what is the best for the most vulnerable in society and vote accordingly. I don't think the Tories are a good option for e.g. the poorest or people with disabilities.

Melanie Social housing tenants with spare rooms have had thier benefit reduced to be in line with private tenants in reciept of housing benefit and people not in receipt of benefit.
Why should a taxpayer fund spare rooms in for soemone else when they cannot afford one for themselves.

Stella the socialist parties always have and always will shaft the poorer members of society. 100 years ago, Russis, Eastern Europe and most of Latin America was on a par with the US and Western Europe- where would you rather live today?

I think if we are going to talk about government policy that lead directly to deaths then everyone might want to take a minute or five to remember the Iraq war.

And you do all remember that it was Labour who first introduced tuition fees, PPI in the NHS, academies etc.

I personally think they're all as bad as each other and will struggle to choose who to vote for (not that it matters, I live in a top 5 safe seat).

The selective memory/rose tinted view of the previous Labour government on this thread is ridiculous though.

caroldecker many of the people being sanctioned with the bedroom tax are very willing to move to properties where there are less bedrooms - but if those properties don't exist locally, then they can't move. They are stuck in an impossible position, through no fault of their own.

Why should a taxpayer fund spare rooms in for soemone else when they cannot afford one for themselves.
This is utter nonsense. "Fund"? The social housing stock has been decimated. There is little suitable housing, and nowhere for people deemed to be in "too large" homes to go. But no, you're right, let's put everyone into private accommodation, and speed up the government orchestrated transfer of public money into the hands of landlords.

Fantastic posts from Schnitzel and Hanna

Op they have done a good job of looking after their own, who can afford public school or private education, private health care, university fees, have an inheritance to worry about, inherited property so no need to buy house. Not so good for people who need health service, social care, mental health, state / university education, affordable house, and those whose parents' money will be spent on care, in other words the majority of people who need to work to pay their way.
Clegg made a mistake with tuition fees but I think others have made bigger 'mistakes'.
Ukip are pandering to the lowest human instincts in encouraging distrust of 'foreigners' and i find them a bit scary.
Labour with Blair and Brown made mistakes but this lot are different they are systematically breaking the health services and have mostly been to public school with no understanding of real life for the majority of people. Death rates in health service are higher so yes people are dying Its not scaremingering. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/24/overcrowded-hospitals-deaths
Who you vote for depends on your values, do you believe everyone should only look after themselves (easy if you inherited £££££ ) or do you think we should care about each other ?

fastforward what was the mistake about tuition fees? It is a graduate tax in all but name and lower earners do not repay - what is the problem?

Archery the lack of smaller social houses in the fault of the local councils and housing associations who have not built enough because they assumed they would get the full funding from housing benefit even if under-occupied. If ocer-occupiers move into smaller private tenancies, then private tenants can move from larger properties to social housing. Net benefit is moving from a large private rent paid by housing benefit to small private rent paid by housing benefit, so less money for private landlords.

How is Farage any different to Cameron? He went to Dulwich College, didn't get into university (intellectual? really?) and was a commodities trader in the City - one of those bankers who helped destroy the economy. Not my idea of a "man of the people"

Nobody but nobody is being taxed on the number of bedrooms they have under the so called 'bedroom tax'. They are getting less HB if they are deemed to have too many rooms. I don't agree that the bedroom tax should have been applied to people who need extra rooms as they have a family member with a disability. But in principle I agree with a set amount of HB according to your needs of rooms. This will only bring council housing HB rules into lines with rules in the private sector rentals.

I'll be voting conservative and if thats where you want to use your vote, because you agree with their policies and think the current gov has done a good job, then I'd encourage you to take no notice of the hysterical mob claiming you must be heartless, stupid or a psychopath Unfortunately there are always a number of vocal left wingers who come out with this nonsense. There is nothing immoral about voting conservative.

However, you say you are also fond of the Greens. Why is that? Their policies are very different from the conservatives.