So, what will it take for the Tories tod itch Cameron?

[WetAugust]

Tories are predicted to come 3rd in the 22 May Euro elections.

They are predicted to lose councillors in the local elections on the same date.

Then there's the Scottish referendum.

How many of these elections can he afford to lose before someone in his party overthrows him?

Who will be leading the party at the General Election in May 2015?

Same question about Clegg - when will the Libs ditch him as unelectable?

I also think that Cameron has given too much leeway to the Libs. There have been occasions when he should have said back me or the coalition is broken - as I cannot imagine the Libs want a premature General Election.
Raising IHT to 1million is one thing the Libs stopped him doing.

Cameron's attitude has always been 'the core vote is secure, they have nowhere to go'. But now UKIP has provided that 'somewhere to go', and Cameron is only just catching up (having condemned UKIP as 'fruitcakes, loons and closet racists').

Why do you think he has suddenly launched his 'we are a Christian country' idea? I'm certain it is a desperate appeal to those grassroots Tories who he has driven off to UKIP.

I sound like a Tory here, but I'm not, I couldn't be further from the Tories, but I am interested in the dynamics of politics.

'Why do you think he has suddenly launched his 'we are a Christian country' idea? I'm certain it is a desperate appeal to those grassroots Tories who he has driven off to UKIP.'

And Cameron has even messed that up because he hasn't come out and defended his "position". All we are hearing now is that we are not a Christian country and Cleggy, the Deputy Prime Minister, wants the Church of England to be disestablished, and Cameron is nowhere to be seen. He is not defending the establishment of the Church or elaborating on his "position". Therefore he is at risk of showing weakness and a lack of conviction yet again, and is in danger of looking like a "spinner", which would undoubtedly have been one of the seven deadly sins if they had known about "spin" back in the day.

I'm not a Tory either Lily, but like you, I'm interested in politics.

Cameron will be running to stand still as his 'core vote' is ageing rapidly and numbers are naturally decreasing.

Looking back over his time in power so far I can't think of anything meningful he has done. He has not had 'the big idea'. Part of that reason will be that the coalition binds his hands but apart from tightening up on welfare - which any party would have to have done, given the perilous state of the nation's finances, and gay marriage, which was a policy foist on him by the EU, I can't see any other ground-breaking policies.

He's stoked the housing market, kept interest rates low to the detriment of those 'hard-working families' who have savings, but the budget deficit has grown and the Free schools are turning out to be a very stupid policy thay attract the wrong sort of ideas.

'He has not had 'the big idea'

His big idea was the 'Big Society' but he is nowhere to be seen on that either, fortunately for him or he would lose even more Tory voters. It has been fropped like a hot potato, and of course, as usual, it isn't even conservative, instead, as usual, it is progressive - a Saul Alinsky radical Marxist style policy.

""This plan is directly based on the successful community organising movement established by Saul Alinsky in the United States and has successfully trained generations of community organisers, including President Obama."

That statement, which beggars belief even in the political fairground we now inhabit, is not taken from some far-out Trotskyite samizdat, but from the official Conservative Party introduction to David Cameron’s Big Idea – the creation of a “Neighbourhood army” of 5,000 full-time community organisers to implement his grotesque fantasy called “Big Society”. If you ever doubted that, under Cameron, the Conservative Party has become ideologically and culturally deracinated, has lost its political compass and is occupied by an alien clique that has disfigured it beyond recognition, here is the incontestable evidence.

Saul Alinsky is here openly acknowledged as the inspiration behind Cameron’s “Big Idea”. Alinsky was the lifelong cultural revolutionary and political subversive whom Barack Obama formerly claimed as his “spiritual mentor”; since Obama hit mainstream politics, however, his supporters have expended a vast amount of effort on trying to conceal that embarrassing history. The aggressively amoral Alinsky believed there was no right or wrong in politics, only what was necessary to seize power (well, Dave and his gang would buy that).

Yet the Conservative Party blurts out this admission in the launch document of Big Society. There is a pedantic debate over whether Alinsky was technically a Marxist, or by-passed Marx as old-hat. What is beyond question is his project to overthrow capitalist society and to do so through infiltration of political parties, institutions and, above all, by the use of “community organisers”. Anybody who thought claims on this blog of Cultural Marxism influencing even the Tory Party were exaggerated can now think again. Alinsky was the first begetter of ACORN, the sinister organisation that tried to gerrymander the American electorate.

What is going on here? Who is running the Cameronian Party – Common Purpose? How is it conceivable that even the most bland, politically correct, centre-right “conservative” party could derive its flagship policy from the thinking of Alinsky, whose seminal work Rules for Radicals was dedicated to Lucifer?"

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100032381/david-camerons-big-society-is-a-grotesque-fantasy-inspired-by-leftist-subversive-saul-alinsky/

The progressives are in charge and that is why they call good Tories "swivel-eyed loons" and why the Tory faithful has stampeded for the exit and boarded the UKIP bus.

Yep - I have my suspicions that Common Purpose is at work. My local council features on the list of those who have paid for their training courses.

I'm the sort of 'hard-working family' that the Tories are supposed to support.

Instead of that I'm worse off.

Interest rates are appalling as I am a net saver.

Child's tuition fees are 18K more than they were at the start of this adminstration.

My green waste used to be taken away for free - now they charge 38 pa.

They have removed all the dog mess collection bins so the pavements are covered in shite again.

Our local FE college has sacked it's GCSE and A level lecturers and now teaches vocational stuff - do we really need an army of aromatherapists?

These are the sort of issues that the 'core voters' notice - the trivial stuff.
It's just a slow erosion of all the 'good stuff' and in it's place we are getting what exactly?

Makes me so mad when I think what we could do with that 55million a day that we had over to the flaming EU

'Who is running the Cameronian Party – Common Purpose?'

The Tory faithful are not hanging around to find out. They have scarpered, they have had it away on their toes, they legged it so fast they even left their "vote blue, go green" stickers behind. They weren't going to bang on doorsteps and try to sell the "Big Society" to the voters, they weren't stupid, they weren't progressive, they were proud Tories for God sake, they had pictures of Maggie above their dining room tables, and they weren't prepared to sell the merits of the "rooftop wind turbine" to the hardworking people of Britain, if they did that they thought that one of them might hit 'em.

They got out while they could and now they are gone for good, they've gone to UKIP like everyone else in the hood.

'My green waste used to be taken away for free - now they charge 38 pa.'

I always knew that that was behind it but I didn't know it had happened yet. 38 pounds is only the start. They will squeeze the people more and more over time.

Our street lights have now gone off at night. You can't see a single thing. Motorcyclists say that they can no longer see all of the potholes in the road and are coming off their bikes in the dark as they hit the potholes that are not being mended with our taxes.

Where will it all end? No wonder people are voting UKIP.

'It's just a slow erosion of all the 'good stuff' and in it's place we are getting what exactly?'

We are getting a Saul Alinsky progressive paradise.

It is one little thing after another that is sending voters over the "tipping point" and that is what has made Farage the most popular political leader out of all the parties.

We are stung by 73% marginal rates of tax, from a so-called low-tax party. Dh hasn't had a payrise for 4yrs, but supposing he got a 1k payrise, £730 would go to the government, because of the child benefit reforms.

Spectator editor Fraser Nelson tore into Cameron recently, saying he had only two modes of operation: crisis, or complacency. I reckon there is a lot of truth in that.

Cameron is safe until the majority of the Parliamentary party agree on a successor. No idea when that will be. And whoever it is may be more acceptable to the Parliamentary party than the electorate.

Spot on, LilyBolero. It's so sad, it's tragic.

They are squeezing ordinary people while the fat cats get 200% bonuses and the politicians get a pay rise and can claim for biscuits, crisps and bath plugs. It's pathetic.

LilyBolero …Regarding your points on Cameron’s lack of Conservative values, seriously for the political party that has now saved this nation twice from economic disaster, is that all you have versus all the ones that make for a sustainable and prosperous economy - when the alternative is Labour?

Take taxes, Ukip stood for a FLAT RATE of tax and national insurance of 31p, you imagine if the Tories tried to bring that in, in order ‘to help the rich’, yet Farage clearly wanted it for his ex city mates, how would a START rate of income tax of 31p helped the poor?????

Under the Conservatives the start rate to pay income tax in £10,500 and rich are paying far more tax than under Labour and clearly a shed load more than Ukip TAX CUTS for the rich.

Take HS2, In Ukip’s 2010 manifesto they said “Ensure "comprehensive electrification" of rail lines and introduce three high-speed lines linking London to the Midlands, northern England and Birmingham” – why the UKIP u-turn, once again for opportunist votes?

Take gay marriage; Why not if it does not affect you or me and makes others happy? Ukip hates gays, blacks, browns, in fact most people not white hetrosexual Anglo Saxon.

Take 'Cast iron EU Referendum: that policy was promised the people a say BEFORE Labour’s Brown finally signed us ‘in’, but is promised now AND ONLY THE ANTI EU UKIP PARTY VOTES WILL STOP THEM getting a majority to organise a referendum.

Re Cameron: at least SHOULD he go there is plenty of talent with experience in government behind him. Farage’s crew couldn’t organise and run a pub crawl, never mind the country.

Ukip CV; ‘EU PROTESTERS’ on an MEP salary of £78,000 annual salary + Daily attendance Allowance + Staff Costs + £3,500 a month allowance to spend on basically what they want.

At least the protester called ‘Swampy’ didn’t take the piss pretending he had policies to run the country and take a taxpayers salary.

I agree with almost all of that, Isitme.

Especially UKIP not even being able to organise a pub crawl. Farage is a good communicator, though he is lazy and lacks discipline (see his recent GQ interview where he admits he doesn't even know what is on his own party's website, among other things).

The rest of the party is a very strange collection of oddballs who do not come across as being bright, organised or sensible, and that's being kind.

Isitmebut

Under the Conservatives the start rate to pay income tax in £10,500

That's a LibDem policy that went into the Coalition Agreement. The Conservatives can't take the credit for that one. The government can but not the Conservative Party. Nice try.

As for the rest of your post, do you not understand Lily Bolero's point? Cameron has taken the core Tory voters for granted, he's been so keen to attract the moderates that he's introduced policies that huge numbers of conservatives don't support.

Stop trying to derail the thread. It's not about UKIP or any alternative that they may or may not present. Many Tory voters feel that the current Conservative leadership do not represent them at all.

Hey, it’s the Hammaconda back, are you ready to come out of the political closet yet re who you are arguing for? Or have another attempt at trashing the economic recovery if no longer on holiday?

Regarding the Lib Dem policy of income tax start of £10,500, that similar to EVERY ONE of Ukip’s ONE policy of leaving the EU, would not have happened unless the Conservatives, the low tax party, wasn’t in government.

With a 2010 annual budget deficit of £157 billion, any sensible party should not have tried fighting that election with big promises of tax cuts, as until they got in power and saw the country’s financial books for themselves, it lacked credibility – BUT ONCE IN POWER, whether the Lib Dems insisted it became part of the Coalition Agreement or not, as the Conservative have PROVED OVER DECADES to be THE party of lower taxes i.e. in 1979 the lower income tax rate 32p, upper 66p plus, then over 96p for unearned income – it wasn’t a problem due to their Plan A and needed to help the lower paid.

Helping the pensioners have been screwed on the State system for 13-years and those that lost around £200 billion on Private pensions due to Brown's raid - wasn't a Lib Dem policy, or do you want to give a minor coalition member credit for that as well?

As to Bolero’s point, it is a rubbish point based on her examples, that is why I couldn’t wait to see her answers as NONE of them were ‘big picture’ items – as what the Conservatives stand on is the complete opposite of Labour’s term in office – on the Tory assurance to let the individual to keep as much of their income as possible to make their own choices, lower size and cost of fat government, ability to grow a Private Sector/investment/jobs/homes, controlled immigration, an EU referendum, pro saving, pro pensions, pro budget deficit control etc etc etc.

So re what LilyBolero said, mentioning 2 or 3 subjects which I have covered above, if that is what Conservative voters worry about; MORE than all the core economically and socially SUSTAINABLE values above, which handed Labour the fastest growing economy in Europe in 1997 and is so again - then LET THEM HAVE LABOUR BACK.

Cameron has done a brilliant job fixing a national crisis Labour didn’t know where to start and Ukip’s policies were a bad joke, so I’m not derailing the subject on Cameron, for that look at all that Ukip rollocks above.

What in the name of fuck are you blethering on about now? Why do I need to explain myself to you? Am I only entitled to a view if I'm a Tory?

There used to be some intelligent Tory voting posters on these boards. What happened to Cogito, Nice Guy et al?

Oh, and please read your posts - you seem completely incapable of constructing a sentence let alone a cogent argument.

TheHammacondas default mode; if don't like the answer, swears and attacks my spelling and granma. lol

If you need help on any point I've made, be specific.

Still in the political closet, how brave.

When you've brushed up on your economic data, gissa shout on 'Cost of Living' post on the 'News' Board.

Isitmebut

You have absolutely missed the point I was making. You can make value judgements about whether those are good policies if you like. I was answering your point about how the conservatives have disenfranchised their core vote, and it is through policies such as the ones I have listed. I'm not going to get into whether they are right or not, the polls say this is what the Tory core vote feels.

The imposition of eye-wateringly high marginal rates of tax will come back to bite them I feel, as for the 'middle income traditional family' (whatever you think about that concept) the UK is a ridiculously high tax place to live. 73% is nothing less than a punitive rate of tax.

I am no UKIP supported btw. I will be voting Labour.

Also, wrt attitudes to the deficit, the Darling plan to consolidate growth for 1 year & then reduce by 50% over 4 years, if achieved, would represent a bigger dent in the deficit than Osborne's austerity has managed.

I'll repeat my question: what are you blathering on about? Why would I attack your Grandmother ?

Lily - can I ask, why Labour? How have they changed sufficiently from the Brown administration's failure? Just interested because I can't see Ed winning a majority for Labour and I can't see them keeping him as a leader for the 2020 election.

Why Labour?

Well, it would have to be labour or green tbh. Tory - I cannot vote Tory, I never could anyway, but the way they have screwed over the poor and vulnerable would confirm that. Cameron and his rich cronies are vile.

Lib Dem - they are a bunch of lying turncoats who are only interested in being in power. They will say anything to get elected. They have voted to triple tuition fees, to bring in the bedroom tax etc etc. they are only interested in power. Clef is despicable.

Ed Miliband is not perfect (by any means), but I do think he is a deep thinker and a person who is prepared to tip things on their head for change. He has set the agenda, and I think he has integrity, but his presentation is not always brilliant.

I also do not subscribe to the whole myth that 'labour caused the global crash', it would have happened whoever was in power. The Tories supported labour's spending plans, saying they would match them 'pound for pound', and Cameron wanted even more deregulation of the banks.

Finally, who was the advisor in the treasury on Black Wednesday, the day the pound crashed out of the ERM?

David Cameron.

So his history is as bad as any labour record tbh.