So, what will it take for the Tories tod itch Cameron?

[WetAugust]

Tories are predicted to come 3rd in the 22 May Euro elections.

They are predicted to lose councillors in the local elections on the same date.

Then there's the Scottish referendum.

How many of these elections can he afford to lose before someone in his party overthrows him?

Who will be leading the party at the General Election in May 2015?

Same question about Clegg - when will the Libs ditch him as unelectable?

[claig]

Newsnight, a progressive programme, has unserstood it.

They said today that the feeling among UKIP supporters is that the country is going to the dogs, that it is being ruined and that that is hard for teh establishment parties to counter because it is not about a particular policy, it is about everything.

They didn't say the real reason that people feel thecountry is being ruined, they may not understand it - but it is "political correctness" and the establishment parties cannot counter it because by definition they are all "politically correct" and are not allowed to be anything else.

[WetAugust]

The problem is that, without convictions, one party just merges into another. There is nothing that makes that party distinct and worth voting for.

All these politicians are just people-pleasers.

[claig]

'All these politicians are just people-pleasers.'

But they are pleasing no one. A party described as consisting of "fruitcakes" has trounced them. Cleggy, educated at the best private schools and the best universities was trounced. Are they all stupid, can they not see what the public feel and think or do they understand it but cannot do anything about it. They are at a complete loss, they are all at sea, they cannot please anyone and their voters are abandoning them. They are all "out of touch". They are all losing. They can't all be stupid, they went to Oxbridge, so they must have no choice.

[claig]

Ukip is the fly in their soup. It has exposed them all for what they are - puppets - and without their master's approval they are not allowed to change, so all they can do is join together and try to swat the fly that has shown the public what they are.

They hoped that no one would ever mention that there is an "open door" immigration policy from the EU and that they are all "powerless" to do anything about it. Being "powerless" is being a "puppet" and they didn't want the public to find that out because the public might then ask who their masters are.

[WetAugust]

They are pleasing themselves Claig. They have achieved what they want - they have power.

They have no idea what to do with that power, hence Cameron's misjudged attempts to intervene in Syria for instance.

The one thing that struck me reading Alaister Campbell's diaries was just how out of touch the Blairs avtually were. They were like rabbits caught in the headlights and needed someone with real political savvy like Campbell to forever wade in and rescue them. The impression you get is that they never ever considered the effect on the public of the actions and had to be told why something was inappropriate or unachievable. I found that quite remarkable, that the leader od the 'people's party' was so out of tune with the people themselves. But I suppose that comes from having the Fettes education, Oxford, ....... They have just failed to have any real exposure to the problems the working person encounters.

[WetAugust]

I agree, they were quite happy when anyone who dared to talk about 'immigration' was immeditaely shouted down as a racist.

Farage had some harsh words to say about Barabara Roche - probably the worst immigration minister we've had and one of the Labour administration who refuses to say she's sorry about the levl of immigration, while her think tank is funded by tax-payer's money.

It's so obsence it's laughable.

[WetAugust]

One of the speakers mentioned the following quotation from Lord Denning, the Master of the Rolls, which I found interesting as Denning was probably the best judge we have ever had:

Our sovereignty has been taken away by the European Court of Justice...Our courts must no longer enforce our national laws. They must enforce Community law...No longer is European law an incoming tide flowing up the estuaries of England. It is now like a tidal wave bringing down our sea walls and flowing inland over our fields and housesto the dismay of all.

[claig]

And Tory voters have abandoned the Tories, which they always believed and hoped stood against the country going to the dogs and stood for conservative, values that respect history and tradition. But it is all going to the dogs, because the Tories are almost as "politically correct" and as big spinners and as progressive as the progressives in New Labour. tory voters passed the "tipping point" and switched to UKIP because they had convictions and wanted the country to be saved from going to the dogs.

No single policy the Tories can offer can win them back. It would require a sea change, an end to spin and "political correctnesss", but the Tories only have one year left before the election and they will find it hard to turn around the tanker and change their progressive habits of a lifetime in that short time.

But, if any party can do it, then the Tories can. They can be ruthless, they can change track, but only if their real leadership understands what has happened with the electorate and why it has happened. Can they do it? Not if they continue reading the Guardian. To understand the people, they have to start reading the Daily Mail and they haven't got much time left.

[claig]

'They are pleasing themselves Claig. They have achieved what they want - they have power.'

Yes you are right. But they will lose power. But the real tragedy for the public is that they don't care if they lose power because what matters to them is the path that they are on and they will just hand the baton to Labour who will continue along the same path. They don't listen to the public, they don't care about them, because they are not allowed to change path, the path has been predetermined for them, and now the public knows it.

That is why the public is voting UKIP and is about to cause a political earthquake and a crisis of credibility and a loss of faith in the establishment.

[claig]

'No longer is European law an incoming tide flowing up the estuaries of England. It is now like a tidal wave bringing down our sea walls and flowing inland over our fields and housesto the dismay of all. '

Exactly, and of course it is deliberate and of course our luvvies will not dredge our rivers to save us from that fate.

But the people now know it and that is why they are voting UKIP.

[claig]

"HS2 opponents are Nimbys who only care about house prices, says Boris Johnson

The Mayor of London says people who oppose HS2 railway are 'pretending' to have an environmental objection"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10794224/HS2-opponents-are-Nimbys-who-only-care-about-house-prices-says-Boris-Johnson.html

What an idiot. He is supposed to be the Tory's saviour. He insults the public instead of understanding them. Is he also a progressive, does he also read the Guardian? We know that no one in the BBC reads the Daily Mail, but we hoped that at least somebody in Tory Central office did.

Farage wil trounce him just like he trounced Cleggy. They will never let Farage join the leadership debate because he would trounce the whole lot combined.

And it is a tragedy for the people.

[LilyBolero]

Claig, this is a new tactic I have observed; if someone disagrees with you, never mind arguing the point, just insult them.

I don't think Cameron will change tack; he is so arrogant I think he can't imagine being beaten by the 'geek ing the other side of the house'. The Tories have for ages relief on EM losing the election by being 'weird'.

[claig]

Yes, you are right, Arrogance is their sin. Just read that fool, Boris Johnson's, statement about the people opposing HS2. These millionaires on expenes don't care. They don't lie in care homes, defenceless and abused, they don't lie in hospital wards, denied water, they don't stand to see their house prices fall in value, they don't live near fracking sites where no one will buy people's homes. They don't care, they are above it all, "out of touch".

I like Ed Miliband, he is one of the only decent ones in Labour, but he cannot win because of "political correctness". It has gone too far, people have had enough. No one will say it, few really understand, it is the elephant in the room that no one can see.

Insults is all they have. They call Miliband a geek, and UKIP "fruitcakes". it is like the schoolyard at Eton, the chums think that bullying will work. But the decline of the country has gone too far, people's plight has passed the level of indecency, patients and the elderly being mistreated is beyond the pale, and the millionaires can't see it, can't feel it, are immune to it.

Schoolboy pranks won't cut it. If Farage ends up in Parliament, then all their heckling and jeering and joshing at the despatch box will seem irrelevant to the public. Farage, single-handedly, will expose the bullies for what they are - irrelevant and "out of touch", arrogant and powerless.

Farage is their nemesis and their arrogance and powerlessness will sink them all.

[claig]

Watch the Panorama programme tonight about how are elderly suffer mistreatment in some of our so-called "care" homes.

It is obscene. It is rarely mentioned. The despatch box is a place of jokes and jests, and yet outside people are suffering. What has happened to our country? Who let it go the dogs? Why does no one speak up?

People are turning to Farage because he is "straight-talking", he says things that others dare not say, he reaches people that others cannot reach, because he is not ham-strung by this secret web of control, "political correctness", that prevents them telling the truth and speaking "common sense". And that is why the people are turning to him and that is why he will win.

Farage probably never realised it would happen like this. He probably can't believe it either. He has to think it through overnight. The people have given him the mantle and he cannot now turn it down. Millions of people are now relying on him to break this wall of "political correctness" and tell the truth.

They can't stop him, because millions of people are behind him.

It is coming to an end, people want the country back - the country of tolerance and courtesy and decency, where people are cared for, where people don't suffer, where things are decent and where politicians tell the truth.

[claig]

And, unfortunately for Labour, they won't win, because the public doesn't believe them, it doesn't believe that they can fix it. The public thinks they are irrelevant and the public now ignores them too. That is why their lead in the polls is so small and why it will eventually vanish.

There is a loss of faith in the Tories, in Labour and of course in the LibDems. The public has lost faith in the entire establishment and all of its Oxbridge spinners. They no longer believe them.

[LilyBolero]

Ed Miliband certainly has his faults, but I genuinely think he is a decent person and a deep thinker.

Remember the political climate at home they were brought up in; they had some of the greatest left-thinking politicians of the time coming for dinner and chatting to Ed and David, and I do think he has conviction, probably through meeting these passionate people, whether or not you agree with their politics.

And their is definitely a bullying culture , & I just don't think Caneron can imagine losing to EdM because he feels is so inferior to himself. But his arrogance will bring him down, because referring to UKIP as 'fruitcakes, loons and closet racists', bearing in mind many Tory voters have moved over, referring to his own supporters as 'swivel-eyed loons' if they disagree with him - it is all symptomatic of someone who thinks they are untouchable, and are where they are because it is their 'right'.'

[LilyBolero]

(Aargh, a rogue 'their' - should be 'there' - can't type on phone!!!)

[claig]

'Remember the political climate at home they were brought up in; they had some of the greatest left-thinking politicians of the time coming for dinner and chatting to Ed and David'

It is more than that. Because I like Ed Miliband but I don't like David Miliband. The pundits, the politicos, the bigwigs all like David Miliband. They said he was like Blair, a winner. But the public don't like Blair. The public like decency and honesty and integrity and that is why they like Ed Miliband, even if some of them think he is ineffectual. Fundamentally, Ed is a decent guy.

But, that is not enough. Ed feels our pain, but that is not enough. The public wants someone who can fix it, and they don't believe that Ed can do it. They don't believe that any of them can do it. they have lost faith in the entire establishment to put things right, and so they have flocked to UKIP.

Can UKIP do it? It seemed unlikely, but UKIP are being carried aloft by the public will. UKIP no longer have a choice in the matter. The public is adamant. They want things fixed, they want change.

[claig]

Farage can't believe it. The reposnsibility is enormous, his popularity grows and grows. People want to meet him, they want to greet him. they want to share a drink with him and have a laugh with him and shake his hand. They are all rooting for him. they want him to show them in Westminster to stand up for us against them.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man. Is Farage up to it? Can he accept the responsibility? Let's hope he can because our country is going to the dogs and the public want to stop the rot and sack the flipping lot.

[LilyBolero]

Claig, totally agree about Ed/David!

I do tentatively think Labour will win, if the current trends continue; most of the disillusioned. LD voters have gone to labour (logical really, as they are more likely to be left-leaning, the more right wing 'orange book' LDs will not be disillusioned by Tory coalition). At the same time, disillusioned Tory voters have moved to UKIP, and the combination of these scenarios, plus the quirks of the boundaries may be enough to get Ed into no.10, though I don't know if they can get an outright majority (I pray that whoever wins does get a majority, I can't take more of Clegg being sanctimonious, yet imagining it is somehow democratic to come 3rd and be in govt.)

But I do think politics needs shaking up and this idea of being a career politician needs to change.

[claig]

Yes you may be right. Labour may still do it. To be honest, I now think that Lord Glasman is right and that Labour should become "blue Labour"- a real people's party.

Oh dear, Farage has just announced on Radio 4's Today programme that he will not go for it. It is a shame. The reponsibility is probably too great. He has blown it. Shame. However, if UKIP put one of the great UKIP women in that seat, they can still win it.

[Isitmebut]

Ukip’s Farage ‘bottled it’ in Newark, as the one-policy-pony Ukip has already got the EU MEP election ‘protest vote’ sown up next month.


Farage, of the United Kingdom Independence Party, by constantly attacking the one party offering the electorate an EU referedum does not want the UK to come OUT of the EU as it would end his EU ‘protest’ gravy train – and with a ‘dog’s chance’ of the Conservative’s getting a slim majority in May 2015 and offering the referendum, Farage needs power in Westminster to both please his backers and further inflate his ex City ego.


High profile Farage could not possibly fight such a strong Westminster Conservative seat as it would announce to those that don’t already know it, Ukip do not have any UK domestic policies, other than those electoral opportunist ones, currently on the back of a cigarette packet, having called his whole Ukip 2010 General Election manifesto “drivel” – yet changed many seat results on the back of it, resulting in the first UK coalition in many decades, which COULD have resulted in a paralyzed UK government/economy.


Farage should be regretting ditching his 2010 General Election manifesto for Labour votes (and wiping all traces off Ukip’s website website but shown below), as most of those policies, we could call fruitcake Conservatism on Steroids, might have swung the Newark vote his way.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8617187.stm



Farage on Sky this morning, is the LAST person to lecture anyone on public figures taking money, as on this package, he still has not answered how his £3,500 monthly allowance over 9-years, covered the £2 million he said he had put into Ukip.

MEP salary of £78,000 annual salary + Daily attendance Allowance + Staff Costs + £3,500 a month allowance.

(Up to May 2009) “Ukip leader Nigel Farage boasts of his £2m in expenses

“Farage used EU allowances to finance his eurosceptic message”
www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/24/mps-expenses-ukip-nigel-farage

[claig]

If I may say so, that is a harsh judgement on a great man.

Is it not possible that Farage has submerged for a while, like a giant whale, and will re-emerge at the most opportune moment to cause maximum consternation and public elation.

Could it not be that Farage is two steps ahead and has a cunning plan that he will deliver with elan? Will he not resurface and take them by surprise, speaking the truth and staring them straight in the eyes?

Do not count thy chickens before they are hatched, gloat not for ye know not what shall be, the people have full faith in Farage, he's for you and me, just you wait and see!

[Isitmebut]

Claig….there is clearly more ‘military’ in Farage than anyone realised; as no matter how much the man salivates over a Westminster parliamentary seat, he knows NOT to put his head above the parapet, never mind charge, WITHOUT ANY (POLICY) AMMO.

Farage “ the giant whale”, now THAT is more like it Claig; full of blubber, slippery, and smelling more than just a bit fishy. lol

[claig]

That is harsh, and if I may so, totally unwarranted and unfitting.