Is this the death of Tory modernisation?

[claig]

"Shadow Cabinet Office minister Jon Ashworth said: 'Tim Yeo's de-selection is another sign that under David Cameron the Conservative Party is reverting to type, with no place for those who thought he meant it when he said "Vote blue, go green".

'Just this week one Tory with modernising credentials has been de-selected and another has quit, and David Cameron is trying to water down a green levy he introduced and even boasted about.

'It's more evidence of the death of Tory modernisation. David Cameron's party is becoming narrower and less open and moving further from the centre ground.'"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515976/MP-caught-lobbying-scandal-fighting-political-career-ditched-local-party.html

Labour must be bricking it. If Cameron holds his nerve, if he has the courage to really "cut the green crap" then this is plain sailing to victory at the election. But can he hold his nerve or does he believe in the "green crap"?

I think that One Nation Labour hopes he will stay with them and stick to the "green crap" and the windmills and all the rest of the eco biosphere planetary palaver

yes please, can you clarify what these beliefs are, and what evidence base supports them?

more detail than 'an advisor who went to eton said so' is preferred

'That's empty. What are the content of these Tory beliefs?'

Is it empty to believe that the Workers Institute of Marxism-Leninism Mao Zedong Thought was wrong, or that New Labour's assault on our civil liberties was wrong?

What's wrong is wrong and I won't won't for it. Those are my principles, but I understand that they may not be shared by some on the Left.

What are you talking about, claig?

You were just asked a simple question: What are these Tory principles you talk about? - apart from 'standing by your beliefs'.

Claig. Cameron has to 'cut the green crap', we can't afford not too! As far as voting Tory, my friend lives in his constituency but says she cannot vote for him (ever)as he's not a Tory!

ironman-

Cutting Green taxes will not result in affordable bills. The problem of crap homes and profiteering will remain. At best, it will temporarily cut bills by a small amount.

Energy companies will continue to profiteer from the public, and people will still be dying in their homes from the cold.

According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, a principle is

'a moral rule or belief that helps you know what is right and wrong and that influences your actions'

My principles are to do what I believe is right and to avoid what I believe is wrong and that is why I do not vote for New Labour.

My principles are to do what is right and good and I try to live by that principle

' my friend lives in his constituency but says she cannot vote for him (ever)as he's not a Tory'

Absolutely, I would never have voted for him, to be honest, I don't even like seeing him on TV. That's just how I feel and others may like him.

Gosh, really? That's original. That's not vacuous at all.

Boy, you really answered the question there.

I don't know many people who claim to do they believe is right and avoid what they believe is wrong. You're quite special in that regard.

how interesting. thank you for that dictionary quote. so helpful.

so basically, tory beliefs regarding energy policies are totally random, not subject to revision as more data come in.

how comforting.

ttosca, "cutting the green crap" is not about just cutting bills by £50, it is an entire philosophy to get rid of "crap" and replace it with commonsense energy policies that supply the nation's energy needs and make energy affordable for businesses and people so that we remain a competitive nation with the opportunity to grow.

'That's original'

My principles are not to be original, but to be truthful and true to my beliefs.

i think ttosca's point is that everyone thinks their beliefs are valid, and are committed to upholding them

this does not in itself mean those beliefs are commendable

it would be helpful, in matters that actually occur in the material world, if beliefs could be supported by evidence rather than 'i feel it in my gut and to my gut i shall be true'

In fact there was one Conservative MP who went so far as to say that the phrase "cut the green crap" should become an election slogan.

That's the sort of Tory I like, and I would like him to be promoted to the Cabinet position of Minister for Energy and the Environment or whatever the position is called.

"i think ttosca's point is that everyone thinks their beliefs are valid, and are committed to upholding them

this does not in itself mean those beliefs are commendable"

I agree, but beliefs are beliefs.

I may have mentioned Comrade Bala of The Workers Institute of Marxism-Leninism Mao Zedong Thought once already, but I will mention him again as he is a good example. He had beliefs that he believed in. They weren't commendable and they were wrong.

I dodn't believe in them and I believe in "cutting the green crap" and I believe that I am not wrong, and according to a source, it now looks like the Prime Minister may also believe in "cutting the green crap".

claig

My principles are not to be original, but to be truthful and true to my beliefs.

chibi-

i think ttosca's point is that everyone thinks their beliefs are valid, and are committed to upholding them

Not only that, but claig hasn't said what she think the Tory principles are.

If someone asks you what your 'beliefs' are, they're not asking for what you think the definition of a 'belief' is, namely:

be·lief
[bih-leef] Show IPA
noun

1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

They're asking for the content of these beliefs, i.e. "What is it that you believe". Claig has provided none, but she is being evasive and can't answer the question.

And why does every thread have to turn in to fulfilling claig's neediness for attention?

chibi I should think that some of Claig's beliefs, and ttosca's for that matter are all subjective.
I believe the Labour Party ruined this country through mass immigration, others think ( a minority) what Straw and Blair did was commendable. It depends what side of the fence you sit on, and in particular how you think issues effect the country.
Claig 'cut the green crap' would be a good campaign slogan, reminds me of UKIP's 'sod the lot' slogan.

'Not only that, but claig hasn't said what she think the Tory principles are.'

I'm not talking about Tory principles, I'm talking about my principles. I'm not a Tory, I already told you I would never have voted for Tory MP Tim Yeo. I am an individual who makes up my own mind. I thought Cameron was wrong to hug a hoodie and to hug a husky and I am glad that he has now finally seen the light and apparently called out for what I believe in i.e. "cut the green crap"

I vote for a party that is closest to my beliefs, I don't follow any party's beliefs however much spin or lies they may use. I never believed the BBC and New labour and the "modernisers" about the "green crap" and that is why I am pleased that Cameron seems to have had a rethink about it.

'UKIP's 'sod the lot' slogan

Hadn't heard of that one

ttosca 'Claig's neediness for attention' Why is Claig being needy? Claig isn't seeking attention, she is just giving her opinion. I'v seen lots of your posts with plenty of insults flung at other posters! If that's not attention grabbing what is?
Anyway it's nearly Christmas, put down your verbally sharp knives! [tchsmile]

three cheers for post modern science- we are facing fuel shortages, or not, whatever makes you feel good man, it's all subjective

oh who cares what i think with my moaning about evidence when good old fashioned gut feelings carry the day.

ttosca you didn't ask what my beliefs were, you asked what my principles were.

They are different.

One of my beliefs is to "cut the green crap", but that's not one of my principles.

funnily, i have often thought, sod the lot, but never yet been tempted to vote for a party which panders to xenophobia and racists.

i am a bit whimsical that way, i guess

claigthe poster was put up in London, it had the heads of Cameron,
Clegg, and Miliband. Underneath was written 'sod the lot!' vote UKIP!
Brilliant!

Christmas schmismus.