Is this the death of Tory modernisation?

[claig]

"Shadow Cabinet Office minister Jon Ashworth said: 'Tim Yeo's de-selection is another sign that under David Cameron the Conservative Party is reverting to type, with no place for those who thought he meant it when he said "Vote blue, go green".

'Just this week one Tory with modernising credentials has been de-selected and another has quit, and David Cameron is trying to water down a green levy he introduced and even boasted about.

'It's more evidence of the death of Tory modernisation. David Cameron's party is becoming narrower and less open and moving further from the centre ground.'"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515976/MP-caught-lobbying-scandal-fighting-political-career-ditched-local-party.html

Labour must be bricking it. If Cameron holds his nerve, if he has the courage to really "cut the green crap" then this is plain sailing to victory at the election. But can he hold his nerve or does he believe in the "green crap"?

I think that One Nation Labour hopes he will stay with them and stick to the "green crap" and the windmills and all the rest of the eco biosphere planetary palaver

'oh who cares what i think with my moaning about evidence when good old fashioned gut feelings carry the day.'

But I gave you my evidence that windmills and renewable cannot supply our energy needs and are inefficient and costly and not cost-effective. We need to use our shale gas reserves, open more coal fired power stations as Germany has done and consider more nuclear even though I am on the fence about nuclear.

What is you evidence that renewables can meet our energy needs cost effectively?

You're being evasive yet again, claig.

You were asked what Tory principles are.

And, in the same way, you were not asked for what the definition of what a 'principle' is:

prin·ci·ple
[prin-suh-puhl] Show IPA
noun

1. an accepted or professed rule of action or conduct: a person of good moral principles.
2. a fundamental, primary, or general law or truth from which others are derived: the principles of modern physics.
3. a fundamental doctrine or tenet; a distinctive ruling opinion: the principles of the Stoics.
4. principles, a personal or specific basis of conduct or management: to adhere to one's principles; a kindergarten run on modern principles.

It was clear that you were being asked what was the content of some of Tory principles. That is, these things:

1. 'primary truths' or 'primary laws' from which others are derived or
2. fundamental doctrine or tenets.

And I'm not playing your games anymore tonight. Time to eat.

can you point out where in the thread you did this? all i have found is you saying that this was the case.

i need more than 'claig said it so thus it must be' evidence, I'm afraid.

when it comes to making decisions on energy policy, i would prefer to consider evidence, rather than gut feelings. I'm quirky that way. i am also prepared to change my mind in the face of statistically significant evidence which contradicts my earlier ideas. i actually think this is a virtue.

Chibi, your posts are verging on the language of the 60's not that I was there! Were you? UKIP racist? 950.000 voted for them in in the last election they must all be racist as well. I don't think all of those who voted UKIP had a phobia about foreigners did they? Perhaps they were more worried about housing stock, schooling, and hospitals overflowing.
All of the above did not effect Blair and Straw, in their middle class enclaves, bloody hypocrites. We all know Blairs a treacherous lying B, as for Straw he lives in a very middle class hamlet in West Oxfordshire, totally oblivious to what he has created, but in his defence, he did say that the Labour Party had made a mistake on mass immigration…. what a toad.

'You were asked what Tory principles are.'

OK, I don't know what they are, because I am not a member of the Tory Party, you would have to ask a Tory. I know what my principles are and I think that traditional Tory voters share many of my views and therefore I am guessing that just as I would not vote for Tim Yeo because it is against my principles to vote for someone whom I disagree with on my core beliefs, that other traditional Tories would probably share my principles as well as my beliefs.

yes, it is entirely possible that that number of voters are racist. some wi just be thick, as well- there is undoubtedly some overlap.

it is kind of cute that you think the validity of a belief hinges on the number of people prepared to vote for it

'And I'm not playing your games anymore tonight. Time to eat.'

Don't choke on your food.

ok. green crap is crap because it is crap, and we believe it, and so do Tories, because those are our principles and to them we must be true.

i think I've got the hang of your rationale, now, claig.

tbh you might as well have farted into a kazoo for the same number of posts, it would almost certainly be as meaningful, with the benefit of being musical, besides

chibi, I form my beliefs by reading newsapers, watching the polar bears on the BBC and listening to politicians and scientists on radio and TV and from what I can gather renewables cannot meet our energy needs at a cost-effective price. If you want I can google and link to newspaper articles, but it now looks like Cameron may have formed the same view based on the advice he gets fom civil servants etc which is possibly why he was reported to say "cut the green crap".

I hardly think he has taken leave of his senses, all the evidence points to him finally coming to his senses.

'tbh you might as well have farted into a kazoo for the same number of posts'

How do you know I haven't? Where's you evidence?

oh claig, this is why i do love you really (no sarcasm whatsoever)

chibi, I love everyone, even ttosca, but I don't like Tim Yeo and my principles would never allow me to vote for him.

thanks

thanks

sorry, can't seem to do the flowers

got it, one square bracket, not two

You were asked what Tory principles are.

That's an easy one. Transfer as much public wealth into private hands before they get caught. They get richer by stealing our stuff and selling it to foreign governments so we end up paying their pensions.

Then why did they win the election?

'farting into a kazoo' sounds painful………….I have however heard of setting fire to your farts, which is what most politicians do, rather than run the country!

They didn't.

''farting into a kazoo' sounds painful'

I don't know. ttosca would be the best one to answer that

Claig. On a serious note, I believe that Cameron should have never started his modernisation programme in the first place. It sounded the death knell for a great deal of Tory support, particularly over the issue of gay marriage. Cameron seems now to have realised the error of his ways, but it is too late for him with regard to his own party. They have lost trust in him and Tory membership has halved. Surely Conservatism is to conserve our way of life and traditions? Not to modernise and become fashionable, just for the sake of it. Tories should have been wary of Cameron when he described himself as a 'liberal Conservative' unfortunately for his Tory supporters he was more of a liberal than a Tory!
Cameron's been a disaster for the Tories.

Yes, I think he has been bad for the Tories. As you say, membership has halved. I really realised how bad it was when they had a Tory councillor who had left the party and joined UKIP on Newsnight. She was very angry when she spoke about why she had left and she said that many others had left too, and you could tell that she really felt it because of how angrily she spoke about it. When you get Tory councillors who have served the party for years who feel like that, then it is bad news.

I think the "modernisers" have underestimated feeling among their own party members, let alone among Tory voters. They have taken Tory voters for granted and it has got to the stage where many Tories now feel that UKIP are the real Tories. If you watch the "modernisers" on TV arguing their case and read "Conservative Home" you have to laugh at how out of touch they are. Frankly, they don't deserve to win for how they have let the Tory faithful down.

I think the Tories believe that they will win them back at the election due to the fear of getting Labour back in if voters abandon the Tories. But they fail to understand that us Tory voters are not like them because we aren't party members or party followers and we have principles, and just as I would never vote for Tim Yeo, I bet there are many others who wouldn't either.

At the end of the day, if Labour get back in, so what, they aren't much worse than the "modernisers".

Labour will destroy our civil liberties, they'll bring in biometric ID cards and DNA databases, but they won't try it in their first term and us traditional Tories will hope to vote them out next time before they get the chance.

They even wanted to introduce minimum alcohol pricing levels, like a nanny state socialist party, and that clown Alastair Campbell praised them for it as he promoted his novel about alcoholism and Hannah and all that crap. The "modernisers" are more progressive than even Gordon Brown. It is pathetic. No wonder Tory membership has halved and no wonder that they don't understand the depth of feeling of their loyal voters.

Gordon Brown called a lifelong Labour voter a bigot and the "modernisers" probably think that their own Tory traditionalist faithful are bigots too. That is how ridiculous it has got, that is how progressive they are, and that is why UKIP was so successful in the local elections.

I voted UKIP in the local elections. I no longer cared if that meant that Labour, the destroyer of our civil liberties got in, because I have principles and just as I could never vote for Tim Yeo, I could no longer vote for the modernisers, the climate catastrophists, the minimum alcohol pricing progressives, the ring-fencing foreign aid givers etc etc etc

Claig, I was reading an article (in the Spectator) that says 13 per cent of Countryside Alliance members will vote UKIP, most of them are Tories. 12.000 faithful Tory members pounded the streets for Cameron at the last election, will they do it again?

Also the article says that many Tories don't see any difference between Cameron and Miliband, and believe UKIP are the new Tories.
HS2 has not helped, nor relaxing planning laws, all effecting Cameron's support in the countryside. I can't see it ending well for Dave can you?

It will be very interesting to see what happens next in the European elections. Goodnight.