Labour 1997 - 2010, was the worst government ever

[Wellwobbly]

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/

Thatcher couldnt start a strike - but she could make conditions such as one would be started and then behaved appaulingly from then on

prices must be seen in the context of people's ability to pay them, and fuel poverty is a major concern within the UK, where 6.5% of the population say they cannot afford to keep their homes adequately warm, according to European Union figures.

even the parliament put on a front of being concerned and summoned the big 6 over inflation rises

She did not make the global economic conditions - the major state indusrtries needed significant investment in machinery which would cause job losses. This happened in the steel industry and the unions accepted that - the miners didn't. This is why we still have a steel industry and not a mining industry. The alternative was continued subsidy, which at £15k a head in 1982 was unaffordable.
My point about fuel and European prices was that there is no evidence the big 6 are making excessive profits on fuel. The fuel costs in other countries with government run providers are the same if not more than the UK.
You are correct that fuel is expensive for everyone, but you are after the wrong target - we need more heat efficient homes and less green taxes

I've answered that above
CustardoPaidforIDSsYFronts Wed 01-Jan-14 17:07:53

utter tosh,

even the NUM official Ken Capstick stated that the miners knew that it wasn't sustainable in the long run as an industry

but there was a callousness to breakng these communities which was unwarrented, this wasn't an unbiased economic decision, the deceipt involved was huge

forges witness statements, the involvement of the MI5 for gods sake

refusal of hardship payments which had always been given before

this she said herslef in her memoir, ‘The Downing Street Years’:

“…it was only by ensuring that they lost face and were seen to be defeated and rejected by their own people that we could tame the militants.’ (P.343)”

it was about taming unions not at all about economic policy

it was the way it was done that was wholly inexcusable an wrong

So, how should it have been done?

as i understand it, in 1984, the govt proposed closing 20 loss making mines, the miners started an illegal strike, the govt refused to back down.

What was her alternative action?

I don't have that book, so cannot confirm the quote (can't find it anywhere else on the web other than the left wing blog you have lifted it from

Note you have neglected to mention the larger number of miners who lost their jobs under the previous Labour govt.

Re Thatcher and her no such thing as society - what she meant was that she wanted to shrink the state because she though philanthropy was enough. In her later years, she acknowledged that this was not the case due to how things had panned out. Bit late for the millions she put on the dole queue and the streets, but even she said that her vision was a pile of cunt.

Having a big at the statement that the labour government 'destroyed' this country. I mean seriously! In what way 'destroyed'? The majority of people still had jobs, there was no hyper inflation, law and order continued, the schools were open, public servants got paid, state provided healthcare continued. Just what does 'destroyed' mean?

You must mix in some funny fucking circles, WellWobbly, because I've never heard anyone call Stalin 'misguided'.

wallison - support for Thatcher comments?

Northern

the deepest recession in history, having the failed banks and the excessive borrowing

Yes I am aware of the recession thanks. 'Destroyed' is still way overblown. Look at North Korea for a country destroyed by it's government, not the UK.

Not sure what you mean, caroldecker. I think Thatcher was just about the worst thing that's ever happened to this country, but even I can see that she genuinely believed in the crap she came out with - she was wrong, but she did believe it. I saw one of her cronies - can't remember who it was, Tebbit or Major or someone - being interviewed and they said that she was disappointed that shrinking the state and allowing unfettered accumulation of wealth by those at the top of the pile did not lead to unbridled largesse or trickle down or any of the guff she talked about.

My DH (Kurdish, under the Iraqi government/genocide) and a whole ton of miner families would probably disagree with the statement 'worst government ever'.

Blair did kill a tonne of people though. His domestic policies were, for the most part, fine - apart from on housing, but every govt from 1979 onwards has got that wrong. But his foreign policy - Jesus. Still to this day there are no accurate figures for the number of deaths he caused in Iraq, much less Afghanistan. What he did to innocent civilians including women and children in those countries is truly horrific, all waged as a war on an abstract noun in support of a dead-eyed halfwit on the other side of the world.

Thatcher and Regan's policies have been generally adopted by all western nations around the globe and are being copied by the Chinese etc. They are generally regarded by anyone who knows anything about economics and the Labour party as correct. The reforms were painful and the successes were partially destryed by the Blair and Brown years who threw lots of money at the NHS and education and got nothing for it, as the recent NHS scandals and 15 year old global education results are showing.
Money is not the answer, public ownership is not the answer - allowing people who fail to suffer is the answer.
The banking crisis was badly dealt with by Brown as the individuals were not held responsible, similarly the NHS scandals, no-one has taken responsibility - the nurses at Staffordshire should have lost thier jobs, along with most of the management.
Had that been a private hospital, that is what would have happened because it would have gone bankrupt.

Thatcher was a batshit alcoholic fucking madwoman and Reagan (note the spelling) was fucking senile.

Good company you're keeping.

LOL @ labour govt 97-10 being worst government in history

Enjoying the lists.

Have we had a list yet placing blair as more evil than Ceau?escu?

wallison
lose the argument and start being abusive - good level of debate

I'm not 'starting' being abusive - believe me, whenever I talk about Thatcher, I invariably swear. I also fail to see where I've lost the argument. You support a mad alcoholic who herself admitted that her policies were a pile of shite. I don't. You lose.

I agree with caroldecker. And why all the abusive comments from Wallison and Custardo. The miners got greedy. They asked for 35% pay increases and were manipulated by Scargill for his own ends.

Mining was a dying industry and something needed to be done. Subsidising industries that are failing is not the answer.

Neither is an overblown state. It is becoming more apparent that when something happens to some people they want to blame Thatcher, Blair, Cameron - anyone rather than take some personsal responsibility. Not everyone but to compare any of our governments to Pol Pot and co is just daft. And if it is really as bad as you are claiming then why dont you leave? Go to a country that you dont hate.

Yes, the miners should just have taken personal responsibility rather than blaming Thatcher for taking away their livelihoods, criminalising them and sanctioning them being beaten up by the police. All of that was their own fault.

And it was the thread starter and some subsequent tories who claimed that the Blair govt was the worst in the history of the world, so I suggest you take your beef up with them.

As for leaving the country - why should I? If everyone who disagrees with a particular govt has to leave whichever country that govt is in, then caroldecker & co should have fucked off to China years ago when Blair was in power.

Actually Cameron et al should also have fucked off to China years ago, by your reckoning. I'm starting to warm to the idea.

Yeah, I hated having more money and better public services.

Wallison - you clearly hate this country. Why would you want to stay?

Well done handcream - you are now part of a long and proud tradition of wanting to remove people who criticise a govt.

Why dont you try and become an MP - change things as opposed to just using abusive language and blaming all and sundry for everything.

I don't want to be an MP. Not that it is any of your fucking business, I do what I can to change things through an organisation that I volunteer for where not only do I support individual people but also campaign on wider issues having identified trends that are negatively impacting on those who come to us for help. I don't 'hate this country'; I hate what politicians and those with power are doing to it - there's a difference.