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Original poster

Justice for Men and Boys - Isn't this exactly why we need feminism

999 replies

wickeddevil · 30/03/2013 22:27

Heard Justice for Men and Boys Founder Mike Buccanan on Womens Hour earlier today complaining that men pay 72% of all income tax.
Well isn't that because they have more income?

And instead of complaining about the feminist agenda doesn't it demonstrate why we need it?

OP posts:
Vadark · 15/04/2013 21:57

"Seriously, some women mock man flu (to take one example) and would be very shocked to hear this makes them a feminist in your eyes."

It's all designed to put men down. It's all feminist propaganda. You know it!

Men are (in general and I understand that there are bad apples and exceptions to the rule) fundamentally more decent to women than women are to men. In general, in the workplace, and in circles of friends, aquantancies etc. women quite often besmirch men and say things to shame them or ridicule them. They also won't go out of their way to help men as much. Where as men are far more decent in gereral and will help other women and protect them etc.

This vid kind of shows my point:

Vadark · 15/04/2013 21:59

"So now you have defined pre- pregnancy, pregnancy and post birth for us all and put down some areas you want to cover, what's your opinion on seeker's questions, or on the areas you've defined, or both, if you like?"

Abortion rights is a complicated and sensitive issue. We need to clearly define a thought process but I'm sure you'll manage to disrupt that.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 15/04/2013 22:04

How am I disrupting it? I'm waiting for your views.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 15/04/2013 22:10

We're all waiting vadark.

Vadark · 15/04/2013 22:10

reverse the roles.

AnnieLobeseder · 15/04/2013 22:11

I'm not going to engage with your ranting, Vadark. It has been pointed out to you again and again on this thread that your opinion on what feminists are/want/believe are very far from the truth. You are the one with your fingers in your ears going la la la, not me.

I'm sorry you're so angry, I'm sorry you seem to think feminists are to blame for all that's wrong with the world.

I wish you the best, but I have nothing further to say to you since you appear incapable of listening.

Vadark · 15/04/2013 22:13

would this be allowed the other way around or would it get banned?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 15/04/2013 22:15

seeker's question again for you:

Please would Vardak, or one of the other MRA on this thread tell me exactly what should happen in the case of a genuinely accidental pregnancy where the man wants the baby and the woman doesn't?

And when the woman wants the baby and the man doesn't.

And what 3 laws would you implement?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 15/04/2013 22:15

Other than that - what Annie said.

Your posts are just angry rants now.

Vadark · 15/04/2013 22:17

How about this one? Is this what you want our young generation to be influenced by? Show me a mainstream music vid with the roles reversed that hasn't got banned.

Vadark · 15/04/2013 22:20

Sabrina, trust me, I'm not angry. I'd just like to know why you support so many double-standards that are affecting and disadvantaging men and boys in toda's society and why you choose to ignore them. No anger, just shedding some light and hoping for sensible answers. Also, trying to show you that by excluding groups of people, you do damage to yourselves AND the groups of people that you don't care about and refuse to help.

Vadark · 15/04/2013 22:25

"seeker's question again for you:"

I shall engage with Seeker when Seeker appears. She has acknowledged and demonstrated some common sense so far.

I already answered that question, by the way, or at least alluded to what WOULD happen in reality. Seeker acknowledged that the woman has more choice and that the baby would get aborted. That came in Phase 2. I want to talk about EVERY part of the process.

AnnieLobeseder · 15/04/2013 22:29

Okay, I'll bite this one last time. The reason women aren't actively improving life for men is because they have no power to do so. This point has been made to you over and over again. Why don't you ask why men aren't improving the lives of other men? Why do you expect women to do it? And what exactly do you expect us to do?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 15/04/2013 22:29

Why can't you just answer her question? She'll see your answer when she logs on.

runningforthebusinheels · 15/04/2013 22:30

Your posts sound very angry to me vadark - maybe look at your posting style and the way you've spoken to people like pan, annie and others on this thread.

The maroon 5 video you've linked to - just so you know- was directed by a man: Joseph Kahn. This is what Adam Levine says of it:

"The cool thing is, when Joseph wrote the treatment after reading a few sentences, I thought it was really amazing," he said. "Because it kind of turns the whole idea of the sexual energy between two people ? a guy and a girl, a music video, you've seen that a million times ? that exists in this video, but it's turning it on its ass and having the girl be the more domineering one who's trying to kill me."

Vadark · 15/04/2013 22:30

3 mins 30 secs in. Show me a male solo artist punching a woman like this. Do you agree with this. Show me where feminists have demonstrated againstthings like this for the sake of their Sons.

Vadark · 15/04/2013 22:33

"Okay, I'll bite this one last time. The reason women aren't actively improving life for men is because they have no power to do so."

Nonsense. You just don't want to.

"Why don't you ask why men aren't improving the lives of other men? Why do you expect women to do it? And what exactly do you expect us to do?"

You could start by cutting the excuses and acknowledging that these things are double-standards and doing damage to society.

Pan · 15/04/2013 22:34

Oh Vadark. Fortunately I do give a shit. Fortunately, without tooting my horn too much, I do a lot. (some I ask about/talk about on this site). Fortunately it's largely about men improving their lives, at no cost to anyone around them (and always to those people's benefit).Fortunately just about all of it is diametrically opposed to the stuff you and Mike talk about. We look at life down opposite ends of a telescope. We use similar words but talk a different language.

And when ARE you going to get round to answering seekers questions eh?

fwiw, the TED talk has been referenced a couple of times, and I'd posted it aaaages ago. it is again, not perfect at all but v refreshing to hear on a main stream media.

runningforthebusinheels · 15/04/2013 22:34

Why would you try to take a music video written and directed by men - who talk about "turning it on it's ass and having the girl being the domineering one" as evidence of... well what? You have a bit of a cheek when it it very well documented how prevalent misogyny is in the media and music industry, and how much women are sexually objectified and only valued for their physical appearance.

seeker · 15/04/2013 22:44

OK, Vardak, I'm with you so far. Pre-pregnancy- pregnancy- post pregnancy.that's generally how it happens.

My question was, actually, what do you think should happen once a genuinely accidental pregnancy has happened, and one partner wants the baby and the other doesn't. Can you answer that?

seeker · 15/04/2013 22:46

And I'd quite like to hear your 3 laws, as well. Because I am finding it hard to understand what, in practical terms, you want to happen.

AnnieLobeseder · 15/04/2013 22:47

I have had a look at two of your links though, Vadark, and can tell you that both would be heavily condemned by feminists for two reasons.

Firstly, these videos normalise violence, which is wrong no matter who is inflicting it on who. Portraying violence in popular culture normalises it and that isn't good for anyone.

And secondly, because the female-on-male violence in these fantasy settings perpetuates the myth that woman-on-man violence is a fantasy, that men don't get abused because they're so big and strong while women are small and weak.

Which as we've mentioned before are the very stereotypes of men and women that the patriarchy perpetuates and feminists oppose.

We keep telling you that feminists are actually opposed to most of the "injustices" you accuse us of.

Why won't you listen?

AnnieLobeseder · 15/04/2013 22:49

"You could start by cutting the excuses and acknowledging that these things are double-standards and doing damage to society."

I absolutely agree with you. And as a feminist I do absolutely oppose double standards. We all do.

Vadark · 15/04/2013 22:51

"Your posts sound very angry to me vadark - maybe look at your posting style and the way you've spoken to people like pan, annie and others on this thread."

Re my posting style. I have already apologised for my quick style, due more to the fact that I have to keep repeating things and also that there are far more womenon his forum bombarding me with posts that I can't get through without being short. You'd love me banned wouldn't you! That's what that sentence was about really, wasn't it! I've been insulted and goaded far more on here than I've dealt out, apart from succinct posts. I've also acknowledged numerous causes that I would support for women's rights and yet all I've had in return is complete stubbornness to even listen. It's all about shaming tactics and selfishness, and that's what feminism is all aboot, obviousy. Because if it wasn't, you'd be saying things like "Actually, that video is pretty damned awful and I can totally see the double standard; Ithink feminism would be right to incorporate some additional remit here in order to support society".

Instead, we gat this nonsense coming from you:

"The maroon 5 video you've linked to - just so you know- was directed by a man: Joseph Kahn. This is what Adam Levine says of it:

"The cool thing is, when Joseph wrote the treatment after reading a few sentences, I thought it was really amazing," he said.

Yeah, because it's really cool, isn't it, to see a man getting beaten up by a woman and showing this as being acceptable to our young generation!!! You really are showing your true colours!

"Because it kind of turns the whole idea of the sexual energy between two people ? a guy and a girl, a music video, you've seen that a million times ? that exists in this video, but it's turning it on its ass and having the girl be the more domineering one who's trying to kill me."

Quite frankly, I don't care what he said, particularly as he is making money out of people who enjoy seeing a man get beaten up by a woman. If you think that's ok, then how would you like it if I said "The cool thing about this video that shows a men kicking the shit out of a woman......" !!!!!!!!

Let me tell you something, RunningHills, it makes no difference WHO directed it. The fact is that this perpetuating issue of condoning violence against men is rife by today's standards and the OUTCOME has NOTHING to do with who directed it. It's a bit like me saying, well, yes, porn is bad for children but, hey, there's a woman in the film so that makes it all ok! You're way off the line of reasonable logic.

seeker · 15/04/2013 23:01

Er, I think the point of the video was to highlight violence-specifically sexual violence. If it had been man on woman violence it would just have been more of the same, ho hum. But turning tit round to make it woman on man highlights the whole shocking nature of sexual exploitation and violence in the media.

Anywhy, back to this accidental pregnancy. Man wants baby, woman doesn't. Or woman wants baby, man doesn't. How do you see the situation being resolved?