Justice for Men and Boys - Isn't this exactly why we need feminism

[wickeddevil]

Heard Justice for Men and Boys Founder Mike Buccanan on Womens Hour earlier today complaining that men pay 72% of all income tax.
Well isn't that because they have more income?

And instead of complaining about the feminist agenda doesn't it demonstrate why we need it?

Nicholas- you have no need to justify your words. I am so sorry that you felt you had to share your experience on this thread.

It is obvious that, sadly, most violence, particularly sexual violence, is committed by men. It is also obvious that the vast majority of men do not commit violence. As anyone not severely challenged in the thinking department can see.

Vardak, you haven't answered my question yet. I am beginning seriously to wonder why.

I'm sorry you had that awful awful experience Nicholas

Shall we all put that TED speech on our Facebook walls? I just have.

This is particularly relevant to this thread, though I think I will also post it as a separate thread as I feel it should be seen. I am pasting the text below but the link above is to the original blog.

A List of ?Men?s Rights? Issues That Feminism Is Already Working On

Feminists do not want you to lose custody of your children. The assumption that women are naturally better caregivers is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not like commercials in which bumbling dads mess up the laundry and competent wives have to bustle in and fix it. The assumption that women are naturally better housekeepers is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to have to make alimony payments. Alimony is set up to combat the fact that women have been historically expected to prioritize domestic duties over professional goals, thus minimizing their earning potential if their ?traditional? marriages end. The assumption that wives should make babies instead of money is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want anyone to get raped in prison. Permissiveness and jokes about prison rape are part of rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want anyone to be falsely accused of rape. False rape accusations discredit rape victims, which reinforces rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to be lonely and we do not hate ?nice guys.? The idea that certain people are inherently more valuable than other people because of superficial physical attributes is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to have to pay for dinner. We want the opportunity to achieve financial success on par with men in any field we choose (and are qualified for), and the fact that we currently don?t is part of patriarchy. The idea that men should coddle and provide for women, and/or purchase their affections in romantic contexts, is condescending and damaging and part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to be maimed or killed in industrial accidents, or toil in coal mines while we do cushy secretarial work and various yarn-themed activities. The fact that women have long been shut out of dangerous industrial jobs (by men, by the way) is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to commit suicide. Any pressures and expectations that lower the quality of life of either gender are part of patriarchy. The fact that depression is characterized as an effeminate weakness, making men less likely to seek treatment, is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to be viewed with suspicion when you take your child to the park (men frequently insist that this is a serious issue, so I will take them at their word). The assumption that men are insatiable sexual animals, combined with the idea that it?s unnatural for men to care for children, is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to be drafted and then die in a war while we stay home and iron stuff. The idea that women are too weak to fight or too delicate to function in a military setting is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want women to escape prosecution on legitimate domestic violence charges, nor do we want men to be ridiculed for being raped or abused. The idea that women are naturally gentle and compliant and that victimhood is inherently feminine is part of patriarchy.

Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.

If you really care about those issues as passionately as you say you do, you should be thanking feminists, because feminism is a social movement actively dedicated to dismantling every single one of them. The fact that you blame feminists?your allies?for problems against which they have been struggling for decades suggests that supporting men isn?t nearly as important to you as resenting women. We care about your problems a lot. Could you try caring about ours?

Patriarchy is a figment of feminist imagination. A convenient excuse. A money making scam.

Feminism sounds more and more like a cult with every blog I read and every time a feminist speaks.

Scary stuff indeed.

This is timely. Linked on Mike B's website today:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/domestic-violence-as-a-man-its-very-difficult-to-say-ive-been-beaten-up-8572143.html

"More married men (2.3 per cent) suffered from partner abuse last year than married women, according to the latest British Crime Survey. Yet help is still much harder to find for men."

"Nicola Graham-Kevan, an expert in partner violence at Central Lancashire University, said: "Society is blind to women's aggression. The biggest disparity is women's ability to seek help which makes men very vulnerable to false allegations. People often won't believe that men are victims. Men have to be seen as passive, obvious victims with clear injuries, whereas, if a woman makes allegations, they are believed much more easily."

I'd like to see a link to those crime stats.

I agree with you that men probably find it difficult to seek help in cases of domestic violence due to gender roles in society defining men as 'strong' and 'independent' etc (ie the patriarchy). The breaking down of traditional male/female roles in society which will help this, surely?

Annie, I loved your link.

I'd like to ask sigmund who poo-poos patriarchal society whether she 1) had her father's surname as a child, 2) took her husband's surname when she married, and 3) why there is no male equivalent to "maiden name".

From the OED.

Definition of patriarchy
noun (plural patriarchies)
[mass noun]
a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is reckoned through the male line:
the thematic relationships of the ballad are worked out according to the conventional archetypes of the patriarchy
a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it:
the dominant ideology of patriarchy
[count noun] a society or community organized on patriarchal lines:
we live in a patriarchy

Um, hard to say the patriarchy is a figment of feminist's imagination when it's patently true - a society ruled by men. Which we have.

How on earth could the concept be a money-making scheme for feminists?

SF - I'd posted the TED thing as it was prompted by your questioning IF women suffer more 'low level sexual harassment' than men, and whilst much of that goes unrecorded there's other ways of pointing to it, eg the Everyday Sexism project, and then the consideration mentioned on that link of how men AREN'T told that they must adjust their behaviour/dress to avoid undesired sexual attention. Are you still refusing to accept what is plain?

Really? 'Patriarchy', the ultimate evil that keeps all us women oppressed and cowering, and the only evidence you can come up with for this all powerful 'patriarchy' is the fact that I have my father's name, my husbands name and there is no male 'maiden name'. That's it? That's proof of patriarchy?

It's just an age old tradition. Who gives a fuck, it doesn't give me a second's consternation. Does it mean I 'belong' to my husband or father? If I'd given my kids my name (which I nearly did cos DH wasn't particularly arsed) would they 'belong' to me?

Yep. Are the Queen, good old Maggie and female MP's a figment of my imagination then?

Feminist organisations are sitting on a fair few quid.

It is proof of patriarchy sigmund - not the only truth but pretty stunning evidence of names, titles and property passing down the male line. It's not just an old tradition - it's one sign of a patriarchal society.

Pan. If there was an everyday sexism project for men, what? do you think there would only be 3 responses? Do you think that because men aren't told to adjust their behaviour, they don't. Or maybe 'patriarchy' doesn't give a fuck what happens to men, so they can behave exactly how they please, who cares what they do right?

The queen is only on the throne because she had no brothers. Any brother, even a baby brother would have got the throne before her. This, it seems, is being changed for Kate Middleton's baby - and about time too. Only took a couple of millennia.

The under representation of females in parliament is representative of patriarchal society ruled by men. The fact that there are any females at all is down to women's liberation and feminism last century.

Ok linerunner. So the fact that I can say 'd'you know what, I'm going to change my name, and my kids name' and I can do so, or the fact that I didn't HAVE to take my DH's name, or the fact that my mother could have given me her name kinda pisses your theory up the wall?

I really don't know where to go to with you on this, SF, as we've been here lots of times previously. I'll just recognise we see the world in v different ways.

'This, it seems, is being changed for Kate Middleton's baby - and about time too. Only took a couple of millennia.'

That damned patriarchy, letting Kate's child be queen. How oppressive.

Yes Pan, I can only assume that having daughters makes men view the world differently.

No, that necessarily doesn't, alone. Other things assist too.

Ok linerunner. So the fact that I can say 'd'you know what, I'm going to change my name, and my kids name' and I can do so, or the fact that I didn't HAVE to take my DH's name, or the fact that my mother could have given me her name kinda pisses your theory up the wall?

I'm not linerunner.

No, you have the freedom to do that, because of women gaining greater equality during the last 100yrs or so. Yes, that's right, because of women's political movements like women's suffrage and feminism.

Care to look up the Married Women's property acts? Without those, you wouldn't be allowed to own property, let alone change your children's names.

Okay, let's try this.

Female world leaders currently in power: 17/193 (9%)

Female Fortune 500 CEOs in the USA: 22/1000 (4.2%)
Females FTSE100 CEOs in the UK: 2/28 (7%)

Female MPs in the UK: 146/650 (22%)
Female Senators in the USA: 20/100 (20%)

One Queen and one Maggie don't count for squat in the thousands of male leaders they sit amongst.

But I suppose you'd argue that this is because women don't want to be in power but would rather be home raising babies?

Sigmund - I'm somewhat baffled by you using examples of how feminism has challenged the patriarchy and wrought changes, such as Kate and William's potential daughter being Queen and you actually being allowed to choose your own surname instead of being your DH's property, to argue that feminism is an unnecessary cult.