Justice for Men and Boys - Isn't this exactly why we need feminism

[wickeddevil]

Heard Justice for Men and Boys Founder Mike Buccanan on Womens Hour earlier today complaining that men pay 72% of all income tax.
Well isn't that because they have more income?

And instead of complaining about the feminist agenda doesn't it demonstrate why we need it?

"Vadark I don't know if bitter is exactly the word I'd use. Am I sad about what happened? Of course. Do I dread explaining every time I go in for an exam that if I freeze up or start to cry it's all right, I'm just having a flashback and they should press on? Definitely.

But of course I realize that most men are not like him. I was raised by a wonderful man and am married to one now. And hopefully DS will be one too.

You may know some women who are out to get pregnant and screw men out of their money, etc. I've never met one personally but I accept they may exist.

But if I can accept that the majority of men are not the type to force themselves on a sobbing, bleeding 19 year old, surely you can accept that the majority of women are not money grubbing semen-stealers?"

I agree with everything you said here.

"More women than men earn under £20,000pa.
Vastly more men than women earn £30-500,000pa."

Men have fewer choices of lifestyle, are expected to do the dirty, dangerous jobs and work longer hours. They also have less time off sick.

It all makes sense to me.

"well said. Men run the bloody world, and still they moan."

Correct, men and their spilt blood have got humanity to where we are.

You moan when you think you don't have equality. Do you expect men not to moan just because they want equality?

"And of course, that 2 women per week are killed by their partners/ex partners per week.

Start talking about countries like South Africa and the figures are far higher..."

Do you rate women or children more important. Shall we talk about how many Mothers kill their children? Care to look that one up?

I'd like to ask you, Vadark, what power or privilege don't you have that I do?

Are men being forced to do all these "dangerous" jobs? And I think you'll find that in the same way as traditionally caring jobs, the shitty dangerous jobs don't earn much money.

So there's a slight flaw in your argument that men earn more because they do these jobs you keep banging on about.

Men work longer hours because childcare is not seen as their responsibility.

SAHMs who get half their partner's assets on divorce because they have enabled their ex husband's career. Do you think these high-earning men could do it without someone at home looking after the kid when they're sick and collecting them from school? He got to that position because of a partnership with his spouse. And the reverse is also usually true of high-earning women. You won't find many single parents running boardrooms.

I won't even begin to go into why women aren't fairly represented in parliament and on executive boards, because I have a feeling you'll tell me that Old Boys Clubs and active discrimination against women don't exist.

"feminism has little time for gender-stereotyped jobs. This means women being free from any obstacle which may prevent her from taking up a job, even one traditionally done by men and seen as dangerous, and men being free from any obstacle which may prevent him from staying at home. Not just equal employment laws, equal pay etc etc, but also the removal of societal expectations and any criticisms of a) career choice or b) ability to perform in a given career based solely on gender.

This means that any man or woman who works in those dangerous jobs, does so completely freely, and this would also be the case for any parent staying at home; no being told they won't fit in, or aren't good enough or strong enough or nurturing enough because of their gender.

That is what feminism is trying to change - the expectation that someone's genitalia is an indicator of their ability to do any job, including SAH parenting. How could you ask for a more equal situation than that? "

Great, agree 100%. Now show me some evidence to suggest that as much effort is being placed on getting women into dirty, dangerous jobs as there is in board quotas.

"On another track: What baffles me about all these MRA is the idea that the problems men are having are caused by women."

Most MRAs don't say that. I reckon they just want some equality in today's unbalance. Perhaps a bit of extra money spent on male cancers would do the trick, or perhaps attempts to tackle male suicide rates, or maybe some media attention on male domestic violence, or to see the Government pay attention to male homelessness issues, or extra measures to enforce offcom to place policies that protect men from media male-bashing and besmirching etc. etc.

"Yes, there are many areas where men may feel disadvantaged, such as being mocked for being a SAHP, or not getting mental health support. But it's not women causing these problems, it's the other men who are in charge."

Yes and no. There are white knights out there who are programmed to protect women at the expense of men. The evidence is everywhere to suggest that. I protect women, but I protect men too. White knight syndrome is bred and indoctrinated into men when they were boys. I guess the male species has always been the natural protector at their own expense. But women allow this to happen. I guess you can't blame them. But if they were really intelligent and truly wanted equality then why don't they help promote true equality?

"We wish we did, but we just don't have any kind of power to disadvantage men in any way"

Other than to send them off to war to get killed while they protect you? Or fuel the modern-day agenda which makes them look like fools on TV adverts? I can go to any end of the spectrum of male disadvantage.

"And so we also lack the power to help men"

Nonsense, you simply choose not to.

"We barely have the power to help ourselves."

Trust me, you're doing ok. It's men who fight each other and don't help themselves. But the inequalities in today's society is seeing them wake up. I guess in a funny kind of way, perhaps you are helping!

"Surely it's not too much to ask that if men have problems with way society is set up, they should change it themselves? Why on earth do you expect women to do it?"

We should ALL do it. Is there a reason why you wouldn't want to contribute to tue equality?

"Feminism recognises that the patriarchy is harmful to men as well as women"

Are you talking about the patriarchy that has fought and died to get humanity to where it is?

"Men are expected to be good earners, to be strong - both mentally and physically, never ask for help etc etc."

I agree, and it isn't always a good thing in the long term.

"Feminism would change this too, and allow men and women to just be who they are and do what they're best at."

What has feminism done for boys, specifically?

Vadarks's diatribes are basically agreeing that women are disadvantaged in both wealth/earnings and power - and interestingly, he then falls back on the old "well what are you wimmin doing about being mp's then?"

The fact is that if the playing field was level you would expect the split to be roughly 50-50. Oh, and then that would mean a more equal distribution of the wealth and a higher proportion of taxes would be paid by women, so Mr Buchanan would be happy too. Or would he??

Maybe Mr Buchanan would just like to keep women in their place?

"I'd like to ask you, Vadark, what power or privilege don't you have that I do? "

Did you really have to ask. There are just soooo many.

mensresistance.wordpress.com/female-privilege-checklist/

"Are men being forced to do all these "dangerous" jobs?"

I don't see any women offering.

"And I think you'll find that in the same way as traditionally caring jobs, the shitty dangerous jobs don't earn much money. "

Wrong. Have you never heard of the term "Danger money". It goes hand-in-hand with men accounting for 95% of work-related deaths.

"So there's a slight flaw in your argument that men earn more because they do these jobs you keep banging on about."

You've got it wrong. Go check.

"Men work longer hours because childcare is not seen as their responsibility."

Men get little choice, unlike women who get every choice, and then usually choose what suits them best.

"Do you think these high-earning men could do it without someone at home looking after the kid when they're sick and collecting them from school? He got to that position because of a partnership with his spouse. And the reverse is also usually true of high-earning women. You won't find many single parents running boardrooms."

100% agree. But which path would you choose in reality? Which path DID you choose? You could have gone down ANY path. What prevented you? Was it desire, qualifications, ambition? What choices do men have that women don't?

"I won't even begin to go into why women aren't fairly represented in parliament and on executive boards, because I have a feeling you'll tell me that Old Boys Clubs and active discrimination against women don't exist."

No, I'm more likely to tell you that most girls aren't interested, or get the right qualifications, or train to be an MP. Or it might be that they choose to have that child that they always wanted and stay at home. Tell me what stops them from being like Maggie, for example, or Harriet H.? Go on, tell me. And show me evidence of a modern-day politician who actually tries to STOP women from climbing the ladder if they're good enough.

And in another of Vadark's many diatribes, he is blaming women for sending men off to war. It's the men (you know, the ones with all the power) sending other men off to war.

"Vadarks's diatribes are basically agreeing that women are disadvantaged in both wealth/earnings and power"

I don't think women are disadvantaged in general. They own half of the wealth if they are married because the law writes it like that. And women have plenty of power in terms of priviliges and protection.

"- and interestingly, he then falls back on the old "well what are you wimmin doing about being mp's then?" "

Well, what ARE you doing about it other than slagging off men and fighting for quotas in cherry-picked areas?

"The fact is that if the playing field was level you would expect the split to be roughly 50-50. Oh, and then that would mean a more equal distribution of the wealth and a higher proportion of taxes would be paid by women, so Mr Buchanan would be happy too. Or would he??

Maybe Mr Buchanan would just like to keep women in their place?"

I think you'll find that Mr Buchanan is totally in favour of true equality where possible. Men have gone out of their way in the past to build the fabric of society and all the infrastructure that goes alongside. They have put their lives in danger, even sacrificed themselves for their families, knowing that they have certain attributes of physical strength that women don't have. They did this to help and to progress humanity.
We have moved into a more civilised society these days and many men are now questioning the way feminism has conveniently disregarded the interests of men and boys. It comes across as completely selfish that very few of you recognise that men and boys have issues that affect them. It is also staggering that many of you resort to shaming tactics and insults. How do you think that comes across to the reader? Do you think it impresses them and gets them on your side?

"And in another of Vadark's many diatribes, he is blaming women for sending men off to war. It's the men (you know, the ones with all the power) sending other men off to war."

So show me all the Mothers of the frontline soldiers killed in WW1 and 2 who prevented their Sons from going. Give me a break.

"And show me evidence of a modern day politician who actually tries to stop a woman from climbing the ladder if she's good enough."

Do you see any problem with that phrasing, vadark? Try replacing "woman" with "Jewish man" or "black man" or "gay man" and see if that helps you spot it.

"That 1 in 4 women are seriously sexually assaulted in their lifetime? "

I don't believe you. I have known hundreds of women and can't recall many "serious" sexual assaults. I suspect the stats have been skewed based on interpretation.

Yes, I'm not surprised none of them have told you considering your ravings on this board. We don't wear signs.

So show me all the Mothers of the frontline soldiers killed in WW1 and 2 who prevented their Sons from going. Give me a break.

Oh for god's sake.

Men send other men off to war - and it's the women's fault for not stopping them? You are hilarious today.

So now do you see why, potentially, more and more men in today's up-and-coming generation could choose to vote for Mike?

They are sick of the double-standards and the complete, blatant disregard and non-recognition of the things that men do do to contribute to society. They are sick of the media indoctrination whereby men are portrayed as buffoons, or smelly, lazy idiots. They are sick of the way society ignores domestic violence against men. And they are sick of the shear lack of privilege they get, whether it be less money spent on health or the general expectation that their lives are disposable or perhaps even that ladies always go first or get off of a sinking ship first.

And all this plus thousands more while feminists moan about how bad they have it.

That's why you should listen to Mike. You owe it to your Sons, at least.

I haven't even scratched the surface yet.

"Men send other men off to war - and it's the women's fault for not stopping them? You are hilarious today."

It's everyone's fault for not stopping them. I don't agree with war but unfortunately it appears to be part of life. In the end, whatever you say and however much you try to skirt around the fact, it is MEN who put themselves up to protect YOU while you stay safe.

Men get the crappy end of the stick as usual. We are ALL to blame for that including YOU.

well majority of the police, policy makers, and media are men....

"Men send other men off to war - and it's the women's fault for not stopping them? You are hilarious today."

Oh, and I nearly forgot. So when all these quotas see women in power, will these women send women off to war?

Vadark - No I don't understand how anyone other than a tiresome mra or a misgynist would vote for him. You think you've showered us with some sort of golden wisdom and we all see things your way? I don't think so. I find your posts laughable, unfounded and contradictory.

"well majority of the police, policy makers, and media are men...."

And they are doing a fine job of protecting you and providing you with privilige ate the expense of men.

what are you worried you'll end up a second class citizen? Fair play then, most women and minorities can tell you it's shit.

"Vadark - No I don't understand how anyone other than a tiresome mra or a misgynist would vote for him. You think you've showered us with some sort of golden wisdom and we all see things your way? I don't think so. I find your posts laughable, unfounded and contradictory."

You don't have to be a mysoginist to want to vote for equality. I wonder if your Sons would find my posts laughable?

Shaming tactics. Yawn.

what privilege? you're not very bright are you? haven't seen a clever mra though.

Oh, and I nearly forgot. So when all these quotas see women in power, will these women send women off to war?

You see - that's kind of nonsensical. A government will deploy it's army if needed (hopefully in a less trigger happy way than in recent years).

That government consists of men and women.

That army consists of men and women. Women have been fighting to be in the front line.

To talk of women sending men off to war is just a little bit silly.

"what are you worried you'll end up a second class citizen? Fair play then, most women and minorities can tell you it's shit."

I wish I had as much protection, rights and privilege as you.

Name one thing I can do that you can't.