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Politics

14 quotes that prove the nasty party is still just as nasty as ever

204 replies

ttosca · 11/03/2013 16:07

We?ve all heard nasty quotes from Tories such as ?Hang Mandela?, ?The homeless are what you step over when you come out of the opera? etc etc which prove just how nasty the nasty party really can be. But those quotes are all pre-Cameron ? who likes to claim his party has changed.

Well, here are a selection of quotes from Tories from the Cameron era which prove the nasty party is alive and kicking and just as nasty as ever:

  1. Neil Burden ? Tory councillor in Cornwall and lead member for Children?s Services ? referred to the ?expense of keeping ?handicapped? children alive? and said there were ?too many disabled children who cost too much?.

  2. Steve Hilton - senior adviser to David Cameron and Tory strategy director ? said the government should boost economic growth by abolishing all working mothers? maternity leave and rights.

  3. Iain Duncan Smith ? Tory Work and Pensions Secretary ? quoted the Nazi slogan above the gates of Auschwitz Arbeit Mach Frei (work makes free) when he said about the government?s workfare programme that ?work actually helps free people.?

  4. Iain Duncan Smith again - this time on how ?lazy? disabled workers are: ?Is it a kindness to stick people in some factory where they are not doing any work at all? Just making cups of coffee??

  5. Philippa Stroud ? senior Tory strategist and adviser to Iain Duncan Smith ? said that poverty, sexual abuse and homosexuality are caused by demonic possession. In her book ?God?s Heart for the Poor? she blames the death of a poor girl living in a hostel on the fact she ?hadn?t the will to stick with? being a Christian and so God ?was calling her home?.

  6. Boris Johnson ? Tory Mayor of London - on same sex marriage: ?If gay marriage was OK ? then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men; or indeed three men and a dog.?

  7. Chris Steward - a Conservative councillor in York ? said people shouldn?t donate food to food banks because poor families ?can?t budget? and if they were given food would only have ?more money to spend on alcohol, cigarettes etc?.

  8. David Jones ? Tory MP and Welsh Secretary ? obviously thinks LGBT people are not ?safe? for bringing up children: ?I regard marriage as an institution that has developed over many centuries, essentially for the provision of a warm and safe environment for the upbringing of children, which is clearly something that two same-sex partners can?t do.?

  9. Richard Powell - Tory councillor and campaign manager for Tory MP Conor Burns ? was temporarily suspended as a councillor but then reinstated after he admitted sending racist jokes from his phone which targetted Muslims, Indians, Irish people, Pakistanis and black people.

  10. Philip Davies ? Tory MP for Shipley - thinks disabled people should take ?a lower rate of pay? than the minimum wage to ?help them get on their first rung of the jobs ladder? because that is the ?real world we live in?.

  11. Christopher Chope ? Tory MP for Christchurch ? regards people like waiters and waitresses as servants. Talking about a visit to a House of Commons restaurant he said: ?The service was absolutely fantastic because there was three-to-one service ? three servants for each person sitting down?.

  12. Peter Chapman ? a Tory councillor in Dorset ? complained on Facebook about the ?terminally slow (and bad) service from the bone idle bitches at Costa Dorchester? and said the waitresses: ?all need a good beating?.

  13. Bob Blackman ? Tory MP for Harrow East ? said he thought the Tory?s infamous Section 28 law that banned teachers from talking about homosexuality should be brought back: ?Section 28 was the right rules to have in school so that we should not in any way shape or form promote same-sex relationships??

  14. David Cameron ? Tory member for Witney ? when talking about the bedroom tax, said that ?Anyone with severely disabled children is exempt from the spare room subsidy?. This is particularly nasty because it?s a downright lie ? as this article shows:

tompride.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/14-quotes-that-prove-the-nasty-party-is-still-just-as-nasty-as-ever/

OP posts:
KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 14/03/2013 20:13

Of course you don't think it's the same thing. Left-wingers always struggle to recognise in themselves vices they are acutely alert to in others. Just look at the bien pensant outpouring of grief over that appalling Pryce woman.

MiniTheMinx · 14/03/2013 20:14

KarlosKKrinkelbeim I asked you a question because I am interested in listening to your opinion, I can't say I will agree with your opinion but I won't discredit your lived experience. BUT you are just rude and resort to throwing around insults. The thing I find so difficult in trying to listen (I have just been accused of not doing so) is that those on the right are not very good at communicating much beyond insults and personal anecdote.

I had running water in the 70's, fitted carpets, cars, TVs, holidays.......( thats my one personal anecdote for the day!)

MechanicalTheatre · 14/03/2013 20:17

Wowzers, KKK, nice generalising there.

You are very shit at arguing. That's my personal insult for the day. It's just too easy to trip people like you up, so I shan't bother. It's no fun that way.

NicholasTeakozy · 14/03/2013 20:17

niceguy2 Wed 13-Mar-13 14:36:10

(Camerwrong is) ... a millionaire in his own right

No he fucking isn't. His tax dodging dad was. But the shiny headed fuckwit and all round misogynist married into the Astor family and further enhanced the fambly fortune that way.

But then, any lie that suits your agenda is fair enough.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 14/03/2013 20:38

I have been on MN for quite some time. I have tried on many occasions to reason with the left-wing tribal mindset. I have given up, for reasons which will be obvious to anyone who approaches threads like this one with anything approaching an open mind. Now I just take the piss out of it. Much mor rewarding.
I will simply point out one more contradiction; this site is rich in threads on the theme of how Tories are evil, cunts, should have their heads kicked in etc (not exaggerating on that last one btw). the lefties pile in - it's hilarious. Yet a relatively mild piss-take such as mine above produces howls of outrage about personal insult.
No wonder your lot are no good at winning at elections. You're wetter than Manchester.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 14/03/2013 20:40

"the shiny headed fuckwit and all round misogynist "
no doubt this is moderate and well-reasonsed analysis, to the average Guardian-reading MN'er. God.

moondog · 14/03/2013 21:43

Karlos, people who can't think clearly or independently have some vague notion of lefties being goodies and righties being meanies so then ally themselves to the lefties in a lemming like manner in order to concvince themselves they are good.

The most pernicious and misguided belief of all is that a huge state funded caring sector would right all wrongs. As a public sector worker myself in the 'caring' sector I have no hesitation in stating that 90% of it could be swept away with immediate effect and it would not only have no negative repurcussions. On the contrary, it would improve matters immensely.

Parkinson hit the nail on the head 50 years ago with his laws

Parkinson's First Law: Work expands to fill the time available.
Parkinson's Second Law: Expenditures rise to meet income.
Parkinson's Third Law: Expansion means complexity; and complexity decay.
Parkinson's Fourth Law: The number of people in any working group tends to increase regardless of the amount of work to be done.
Parkinson's Fifth Law: If there is a way to delay an important decision the good bureaucracy, public or private, will find it.
Parkinson's Law of Science: The progress of science varies inversely with the number of journals published.
Parkinson's Law of Delay: Delay is the deadliest form of denial.
Parkinson's Law of Data: Data expands to fill the space available.
Parkinson's Law of Meetings: The time spent in a meeting on an item is inversely proportional to its value (up to a limit).
Parkinson's Law of 1000: An enterprise employing more than 1000 people becomes a self-perpetuating empire, creating so much internal work that it no longer needs any contact with the outside world.

claig · 14/03/2013 22:47

'Camerwrong'

NicholasTeaKozy, very good, I haven't seen that one before. Excellent.

'You can not have socialism in one country.'

Mini, are you saying that the whole world has to suffer under it?

MrJudgeyPants · 14/03/2013 23:02

Karlos I too have often butted heads with the left on this site. I haven't posted on here as much as I used to simply because I ended up having the same arguements with the same people and, after a while, it all gets a bit tedious. My own perspective is one where individuals should be taking responsibility for their own actions and to this end I believe a big powerful state / government which is responsible for spending nearly 50% of this countries GDP is counterproductive and economically damaging for society as a whole. To this end I only marginally prefer the Tories to Labour and am quite happy to damn them both as big state shrills. Earlier tonight I was on the excellent libertarian blog, Samizdata, where I read the following about wealth inequality and which stuck a cord for me. Although it refers explicitly to the US, it can be equally applied to the UK (and to Mumsnet's lefties in particular).

"I often see postings by friends on social media sites trumpeting the fact that the ?gap between rich and poor? (whatever that might mean) is terrible in the United States and we must do something about it.

When confronted with such statements, I usually note that the Gini coefficient (which seems to be what they are referring to) is far lower in India, and yet most poor people in the United States would strongly resist trading places with someone in India at the same decile of income, while strangely most poor people in India probably would trade places with their counterpart in the United States.

The reply I generally get in return is either silence, or sometimes a pointer to some sort of document or video purporting to explain how damaging to society a big ?gap between rich and poor? is.

I continue to hold that it is better to be eating well but to know that others are doing even better than you than it is to know that even though you are starving most other people are too. The former will keep you fed, while the latter should reasonably appeal only to those so encumbered by jealousy that they prefer universal misery to the success of others.

I suppose, however, that it is a question of personal values. To me, envy is not a rational basis for public policy, but others appear to feel it is the only one that counts."

moondog · 14/03/2013 23:08

Interesting JP.
I was reading some research on salary gaps recently. I'll try to dig out the reference.
What transpired was that people actually seem to prefer earning less as long as there is a smaller gap between what they earn and those around them earn.

But so true about those who would be more than happy to trade places.
As someone who has got aronud the world a bit in my time, over and over I meet people who would kill to be here or in the States.
Hence the current alwarm over Britain being overrun by Romanians imminently.
Who, quite frankly can blame them for wanting to get a slice of the action?

MrJudgeyPants · 14/03/2013 23:33

Ttosca Earlier upthread, when asked where you would start with reforms to the country, you wrote I would say heating, transport, electricity, and rent are outrageously expensive in the UK.

It may suprise you that I totally agree with you. Needless to say, I lay the blame for these four problems at the feet of big state government. Heating and electricity prices are different ends of the same turd. Renewable obligations, feed in tariffs and general ignorance amongst our political elite that wind power can power the country have pushed up household bills to the point where an additional 5000 of our elderly have perished this winter. If governnent got out of the way, the extraction of our vast supplies of shale gas could be exploited and energy costs would be allowed to fall through the floor much as they have done in the US and in Canada where shale gas extraction has both made energy cost less whilst simultaneously reducing the countries carbon emissions.

Transport costs have skyrocketed for private motorists and air passengers due to the imposition of excessive taxation by the state whilst botched privatisations have bollocksed up rail too. If the state was unwound from these areas - preferably to the point where enough taxation was levied to pay for externalities but not used for general revenue raising - we might be on to something. Certainly as a counterinflationary measure / economic stimulus, I can hardly think of a better fiscal stimulus than reducing fuel duty.

Finally, my thoughts on the cost of housing are well documented elsewhere on this site but the gist is that if land can be bought without planning permission for £10k per acre but, less than a mile away, it costs £750k per acre with planning permission it stands to reason that one of the biggest costs of housing is the state issued permission to build slip. It is the restriction in supply of those permission slips which leads to the bloated costs of housing in the UK. I lay the blame for this state of affairs at the governments feet too.

ttosca · 15/03/2013 00:56

MrJudgeyPants-

"I often see postings by friends on social media sites trumpeting the fact that the ?gap between rich and poor? (whatever that might mean) is terrible in the United States and we must do something about it.

When confronted with such statements, I usually note that the Gini coefficient (which seems to be what they are referring to) is far lower in India, and yet most poor people in the United States would strongly resist trading places with someone in India at the same decile of income, while strangely most poor people in India probably would trade places with their counterpart in the United States.

The reply I generally get in return is either silence, or sometimes a pointer to some sort of document or video purporting to explain how damaging to society a big ?gap between rich and poor? is.

I continue to hold that it is better to be eating well but to know that others are doing even better than you than it is to know that even though you are starving most other people are too. The former will keep you fed, while the latter should reasonably appeal only to those so encumbered by jealousy that they prefer universal misery to the success of others.

I suppose, however, that it is a question of personal values. To me, envy is not a rational basis for public policy, but others appear to feel it is the only one that counts."

My God. You cannot be serious! Is this supposed to be an argument or a right-wing masturbatory fantasy?

The GINI co-efficient only measures inequality, not wealth. Wealth and inequality are not opposites, either logically, semantically, or factually.

Sweden, Norway and Denmark are very equal societies and also very wealthy societies.

USA and UK are very unequal societies and also very wealthy societies.

India is a very unequal society AND it is still a developing country.

You can have both wealthy and have a good standard of living for the vast majority of people without having outrageous levels of wealth inequality like you have in the UK.

Christ, man, be a little more critical.

OP posts:
PeneloPeePitstop · 15/03/2013 08:27

Nothing is going to change as long as the cost of living decreases sharply.

That won't happen as all the political parties out there have their noses in the trough of big business and don't want their profits hurt.

Labour hasn't been left wing for years.

I'm not forgetting that 11,000 people have died since being found fit for work in a process started by Laboyr and perpetuated by the coalition.

People are being found fit for work by ATOS then having their JSA claim failed as they are considered too ill to work by job centre plus. Not the sign of a new, joined up, efficient welfare system.

Workfare means there were few Christmas jobs in retail last year. Any work experience scheme should never take place in a profit making business. It's eroding the already scarce job market.

Oh and Polly Toynbee is lovely. Have spent many hours with her!

FasterStronger · 15/03/2013 08:46

the cost of living is increasing because the standard of living is rising for vast numbers of people in developing countries and they are able to complete with us for limited resources.

we have had an easy ride in the past. that is over. but it is what greater global fairness looks like. its going to get tougher and tougher for the West.

PeneloPeePitstop · 15/03/2013 09:03

Fine, then wages must increase to cover those costs. Yes I do know about inflation but you can't have it all ways.

When there are buy to let landlords making a killing, when people are selling houses they bought in the 90s for multiples of what they bought them for, when utility companies and grocery retailers are hauling massive profit then something is very wrong.

If you don't want to raise wages then state subsidy ie tax credits or housing benefit is needed.

None of those are really workable.
Far better to correct the cost of living.

ElBurroSinNombre · 15/03/2013 09:30

Penelopee,

If what you say is true about landlords, utilities and food retailers then a way to correct the cost of living, I am afraid, is to keep wages lower - rises in wages will be swallowed the very thing that you find so offensive (i.e. profiteering).

Personally I think Faster has a good point, we (the west) are in decline, we have had it too good for too long and are no longer as competative in a globalised world that is quickly catching up and overtaking us. This process will inevitably lead to residents of GB being poorer both relatively with other countries and in real terms while a readjustment takes place.

Finally on the point that ttosca makes in rubbishing Judgey. I don't think that Judgey is saying at all that wealth and inequality are equivalent. I think he is saying that measuring poverty in comparison with the wealth of a society is meaningless (i.e. measures of poverty should be in absaloute terms and not a relative measure). By absaloutre terms I mean, does someone have shelter of a habital standard, can they feed and clothe themselves etc.

I too have wondered whether ttosca is actually a conservative troll. If so,then I have to applaud you ttosca, what you do is quite brilliant.

FasterStronger · 15/03/2013 09:36

penelop - Far better to correct the cost of living.

the rising in costs is the correction - just not the one we in the UK would chose

flatpackhamster · 15/03/2013 09:40

PeneloPeePitstop

Far better to correct the cost of living.

You won't correct the cost of living by raising the minimum wage. You'll create inflation and unemployment.

The issue with the cost of living is complicated and can't be solved by magic welfare handouts or increases in the minimum wage. There's no magic solution here. There are several things that can be done - higher interest rates (around 7-8%), tightly managed immigration with a ferociously efficient deportation policy, and getting rid of Employers' NI for small businesses are some of the things that would help.

NicholasTeakozy · 15/03/2013 10:28

You won't correct the cost of living by raising the minimum wage. You'll create inflation and unemployment.

Bosses have been spouting that crap since the dawn of the labour movement and it's been proved to be utter horseshit time and time again. What creates unemployment and low wages is allowing our skilled blue collar manufacturing to be exported, first to Eastern Europe, now to the Far East.

MiniTheMinx · 15/03/2013 10:32

Mini, are you saying that the whole world has to suffer under it?

Claig I am keen on equality, wouldn't want anyone to feel they are missing out Grin

after a while, it all gets a bit tedious

Do you think Mr Pants you have a monopoly on feeling this way?

we have had an easy ride in the past. that is over. but it is what greater global fairness looks like. its going to get tougher and tougher for the West.

FasterStronger but the only real winners are the capitalist class who of course have no national loyalty, so yes not only are American corporations using offshore cheap labour, offshore tax havens they are also looking at growing economies to form their market. So whilst ordinary brits and american people are feeling the pinch in this global "readjustment" the capitalist class are not. Which is another reason why I find right wing rhetoric about immigration so annoying and simplistic. Whilst workers are denied the right to migrate, capital and corporations take flight and ignore boarders in pursuit of profit. This is why calls to nationalism are useful for the elite and a dead end for workers. Class interests should come before national interest for workers, just as it does for the capitalist class.

costs of housing is the state issued permission to build slip

Mr Pants, no. Those on the right like yourself would argue for a small state big on law. The position of the state under neo-liberalism is a precarious one where the state is expected to provide the contractual laws that govern activity within the free market. Under law those contracting should be equal, in practice they are not. The government permission needed to build is not as straight forward as saying it cost x- amount to gain approval and pass on the cost. In fact the issue is obscured by: political donations and solidarities btw state and capitalist owners, monopoly over land (look into how much Tesco and sainsbury are sitting on) What we actually need is land held in common.

Finally, the size of the state. The left are always being accused of wanting a large state with the death of individual liberty. What most on the left argue for is collectivisation of property and land owned in common. The large state came about in response to capitalism. (history shows us this)

I would argue that the conditions for : freedom FROM (insert poverty, hunger, injustice, discrimination....) must be met before the conditions: FOR (insert consumer choice, self actualisation, happiness, equality...) can be realised.

""The realm of freedom.....actually begins only where labour which is determined by necessity and of mundane considerations ceases" and it "lies beyond the sphere of actual material production" Marx

Where social power is held in the money form and accumulated over time into fewer hands, it is impossible to break the monotony of debt/labour slavery and be equal in terms of opportunity. The notion that equal opportunity and individualised freedom can be sought under a libertarian free market is a fiction peddled by those who hold social power.

The other bug I have is this nonsense that the left make moral arguments. I don't know anyone on the left that uses moralising argument or calls to sympathy. What is interesting from this thread is the collectivisation of those in pursuit of individual liberty back slapping each other over their warped right wing views.

Those on the left interestingly fail to jump to the defence of others on the left......why? because we actually feel others can speak for themselves and have MORE respect for individual liberty and confidence in others. That can never be a moral perspective because it confers no prejudice.

lrichmondgabber · 15/03/2013 10:52

The Tories bias policies towards their rich friends. Very NASTY indeed

claig · 15/03/2013 10:52

'The other bug I have is this nonsense that the left make moral arguments.'

Agree entirely. I have always said they make immoral arguments. I am glad we at least agree on that.

lrichmondgabber · 15/03/2013 10:53

And most bosses are rabid Tories.

MiniTheMinx · 15/03/2013 11:01

claig you are a very naughty person indeed but I make no judgement Grin That is not a dialectic I acknowledge......moral/immoral because it would be entirely subjective! What is meant is that left wing politics is not grounded in moral arguments when compared to right wing politics that calls on people to make judgements about deserving/undeserving, middle class/working class, scrounger/skiver, worthy women/whores, married women/single mothers....

claig · 15/03/2013 11:05

I think both left and right wing politics have a foundation in morality and that is good.

Helping poor people who are suffering injustice and poverty is a deeply moral act.

It is morality that inspires the policies that help people in need. Nothing wrong with that.

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