Just been on a course about new benefit system

[buggyRunner]

Christ it's a big shake up.

I say this as someone who won't be personally affected- it is harsh.

Basically if you claim any benefits other than child benefit you're probably going to have a loss.

"Josephine, you've been arguing that large corporations need taxpayers' money to maintain jobs."
Have I?

Garlic: Someone on Jsa or Income support who wants to take a shot at starting their own sme can apply for a top up to their benefit for a fixed time. It's only a tenner a week I think and it is only to get them to the stage of being ready to put a business plan in for funding, not that sure about it really just know my mate had to get EHRC involved

Sorry I meant to say G if you want me to I could get details and pm you?

Yes, you have

The minimum wage is insufficient for most people to live on. The current estimate for a liveable UK minimum is around £10/hr. You said we need the giants to maintain jobs, so they have to be able to pay NMW. Minimum wage-earners are topped up by benefits. So taxpayers' money is being used to make up the wages.

I say don't give that "make jobs" money to international corps, give it to real people to start businesses. The big corps will reduce employment as far as possible anyway because, as you said, they lift profits by eliminating staff. Small outfits would only have to break even to remove a burden on the taxpayer. When they make profits, they become a net gain instead of a drain on the economy. Their profits will be contributing to the UK economy instead of some other country's.

Yes indeedy Josephine. I depart from Garlic in what I would use the savings for, but the amount of ctc, hb, ESA, IS, JSA, that could be saved by telling tescoes and the rest to pay more would be substantial. A saving of tax payers money.

This would need underpinned by legislation to stop private landlords, mortgage companies, banks etc profiteering. However it would mean that we could raise prices in the shops so people like dairy farmers can get a decent living. Our cost of living is lower than other countries as a result of driving everything including wages down to the bottom thats why we are now in such big trouble.

"Yes indeedy Josephine. I depart from Garlic in what I would use the savings for, but the amount of ctc, hb, ESA, IS, JSA, that could be saved by telling tescoes and the rest to pay more would be substantial. A saving of tax payers money."
No it wouldn't, because it would cause mass job cuts!

Ah, thanks, Leith! Yes, I had seen that but it is hopelessly pathetic and too short-lived :( I'm currently living in (distinctly unrealistic) hopes that my permitted work will take off at some point - fast enough to get me off benefits in one swoop!

It would be nice if there was a decent graded-earnings scheme but, so far, I've seen them knocked off the table as soon as they were put there.

It is like living in crazyworld sometimes

Those job cuts and yes some would occure would be dealt with by introducing nonm profit lead training and job training schemes. Further and higher education grants, and more help for the start ups that Garlic advocates. All you wanted was an alternative not a simpler easier solution well you have it. It would make the money we have work for us instead of others.

With tax loops closed, more people earning enough to pay tax a 1 p raise in tax rates for everyone, savings on trident, and road building which is pointless and crap for the planet, then yes we will pay down the debt. Ot actually my main wish would be to default and stuff the bankers in the way they stuffed us. iceland, remember iceland they did that and did they sink nope. Have they been taken over by swiss gnomes, nope, are they a better more united country, it appears so.

G what type of thing are you doing? I am trying the very long route of a community organisation in the education disability rights field, maybe a social enterprise or perhaps a development trust. It is me and a few others, the thing that is just so wrong is that a huge amount of creative talent is out here, plus skills and experience. it's being wasted and then people tell us to get a job that some like me, maybe you too can never hope to sustain.

Sorry if its been asked, but is there anywhere to find out what I will be entitled to after the cuts? I know I can go on entitled to, but that only tells me what Im entitled to now, I want to know how I will be affected/effected (sorry it always confusing me) in the coming year.

I have tried to read the official lines, but it doesn't really tell me what Im hoping to find out, ie the actual figures I would be entitled to if nothing changed.

The whole system needs reforming. Under the current financial model, only a very few prosper. Everybody else suffers. It's just a massive Ponzi scheme.

actually my main wish would be to default and stuff the bankers in the way they stuffed us

its not the banks we borrowed money from www.debtbombshell.com/bond-market.htm plus who is going to lend us money for the deficit if we arent trustworthy?

my main wish would be to default and stuff the bankers - Can't say I disagree, Leith. Turn the Bank of England back into a consumer bank while we figure things out, maybe.

Isn't it hard to work out all this stuff about social enterprise, community funding and all that malarkey? No surprise that a high proportion of successful applicants are 'partnered' by a corporate enterprise.

FartBlossom - No, because it's still being made up as they go along. UC, which is imminent, is still said to be "Probably" "In the region of" £70/week ... a 35% income cut for me, if so.

It's just a massive Ponzi scheme.

YES! It is! Thank you, Nicholas, it's so hard to get people to see it.

I remember when my friend fell on hard times (walked out on when PG), she took in a lodger.

I think if you are not brought up to take benefits, it's the kind of thing you do. Benefits, for many people are the last resort.

Claire, you can't be saying I must have been "brought up to take benefits"?

I didn't even find out what I was entitled to until I was homeless. The benefits 'advisors' had lied when I asked them.

Believe it or not, some people ask how they can help themselves - and that might include taking in a lodger - before taking a trip to the benefits office.

It's just a massive Ponzi scheme. please can someone explain this theory?

Niceguy2, the one thing I find confusing about Universal Credit is that the government both claim that nobody will be worse off at the same time that they claim there will be a cap on benefits. Obviously it makes no sense to bring in UC unless it is actually going to reduce the benefits bill, so presumably some families (for example the ones over the £26k cap) will be worse off? So why are they claiming that nobody will be worse off?

Oh, well, Claire, I suppose you'll find out how much your attitude is worth if you ever need backup and find the 'safety net' is full of holes. Can't say I was terribly impressed with the 'net' provided by my contributions of more than £½m while working. I'm glad of it now, mind you, but it didn't kick in when it should have and is about to melt away.

Perhaps you can put your superiority complex in the bank.

Believe it or not Claire some people are not in a position to help themselves.

Some people would not understand how to take in a lodger. Some people do not have the space for a lodger.

Wouldn't you have rather had the £1/2 million? Or at least a large part of it?

I would have no qualms about doubling up children's sleeping arrangements and renting out two rooms.

Dawn, if they don't have the space for a lodger, their benefits will not be cut!

GB - please ignore if this is too personal but how can you contribute £0.5m (in tax) then need to rely on benefits? i would have thought you had too much money to qualify.