France and Greece Election results!

[LadyWithEDS]

So, what do you think it means for Europe?

Only because we keep giving it to the bankers. Where do you think they got it from?

Why not renationalise a bank/banks and let the others sink, if they mae stupid decisions re Greece? Why are we charging govts interest to borrow from banks, who we then have to bail out? This is silly. If we're going to print money as we are doing we might as well keep the proceeds - the middlemen don't add anything. They were supposed to take the risk but they haven't - they took the profits and are still doing but as soon as any problems came along they went cap in hand to the govts for help. What purpose do they serve (unless you count keeping high end London house prices afloat)?

Some of the banks with the most of the Greek Debt are French national banks.

Well, the sky might yet be falling. All euro stock markets continuing downwards (except Germany).

And there has been a second failed attempt to form a coalition in Greece, so more elections.

With Hollande's 'non' added to the mix, we're looking at renewed volatility of Eurozone crisis again: with some commentators opining that the stress is spreading to Spain.

i dont think you have the correct facts: last round of rightdowns were bonds sold to private investors (banks etc.), so private institutions absorbed the losses.

now the majority of money going to Grece is EU & US govt money going to the Greek govt via the IMF and the EU.

now its us they dont want to pay back. also they pay on average 10% less tax then people in the rest of Europe.

'so private institutions absorbed the losses.'

are those the ones that receive the quantitative easing and the public bailouts when they run into trouble?

'now its us they dont want to pay back'

the money they receive goes to pay interest to the bankers, meanwhile tens of thousands more people have to lose their jobs as a condition of receiving the money to pay the bankers.

QE isnt giving money to the banks. accordig to wiki on QE:

"During its QE programme, the Bank of England bought gilts (UK govt debt) from financial institutions, along with a smaller amount of relatively high-quality debt issued by private companies."

i wont disagrees with you about the bailout being a shambles and us loosing out. but i dont see how the Greek people not wanting to pay back their debt to us is the same thing. we cannot piss off the banks because they generate 10% of our total tax take and can easily move countries. why should Mr/Ms UK Average taxes be gifted to a country that is corrupt and pays 10% less take than us anyway?

nothing on the current agenda will fix greece. they need to sort our their corruption, pay tax and as a nation, live within their ample means. at the moment they are in collective denial and very far from sorting themselves out.

Lower interest rates encourage people to spend, not save. But when interest rates can go no lower, a central bank's only option is to pump money into the economy directly. That is quantitative easing (QE).

The way the central bank does this is by buying assets - usually financial assets such as government and corporate bonds - using money it has simply created out of thin air.

The institutions selling those assets (either commercial banks or other financial businesses such as insurance companies) will then have "new" money in their accounts, which then boosts the money supply.

QE had never been tried before in the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15198789

'we cannot piss off the banks because they generate 10% of our total tax take and can easily move countries. why should Mr/Ms UK Average taxes be gifted to a country that is corrupt and pays 10% less take than us anyway?'

We bailed the banks out and the British taxpayer paid for it, and now we are continuing to bail the banks out and stave off a banking crisis and collapse of the Euro by giving taxpayer money to Greece, which the Greeks then give to the banks.

'nothing on the current agenda will fix greece. they need to sort our their corruption, pay tax and as a nation, live within their ample means. at the moment they are in collective denial and very far from sorting themselves out.'

Yes, something will fix Greece. Listen to Farage and not the bankers. Greece should leave the Euro, return to the drachma, devalue and begin teh slow process of growth.

Frage foresaw all of this, he warned against it and now he is one of the only political figures offering the best solution to alleviate the suffering of millions of people caused by a corrupt political class and their cooking of the books.

Oh, and of course the political class across Europe knew that what has happened was likely to happen all along, but they kept it secret from the people whom they claim to "represent".

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141496/German-government-forced-hand-secret-documents-explose-euro-flaws--reality.html

People don't commit suicide for no reason.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2136600/Greek-debt-crisis-Spate-suicides-shocked-Greece-prepares-to-polls.html
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2125084/Greek-pensioner-commits-suicide-outside-Greek-parliament.html

Don't believe the lies about lazy tax dodgers pushed by the banker's media. The elite political class foresaw what would happen and said it might lead to "catastrophe" - not phony climate catastrophe, but real human catastrophe.

A far right party, much more extreme than France's FN, now has 7% of the votes. This is a very serious crisis for people and who knows whether it will spread to other countries across Europe. And the elite and bankers fiddle expenses and cook books while Rome burns.

i dont understand Claig, are you saying QE is giving money to the banks or not?

Yes.
'The institutions selling those assets (either commercial banks or other financial businesses such as insurance companies) will then have "new" money in their accounts, which then boosts the money supply'

In a Ponzi scheme, debts are paid by "new" money from new suckers.

And as always the sucker is the public, the taxpayer, who is then berated for not paying enough taxes to service the debt to the bankers.

Which is why the puppets increase taxes on the public, to keep the money-go-round spinning.

It's known as wealth resdistribution from the poor to the rich. It's the same old game, and the puppets tell us that it is the lazy tax dodging people to blame.

Its also why they cut public spending and sell out welfare and health services.

Exactly. It is a policy of austerity to reduce living standards and growth for the population. To cut pensions of an ageing population who live longer and make them work for longer and longer. They call it "sustainability".

And in some countries they have already got rid of democracy in favour of technocracy to push through their "reforms" on the people, who they say need to be "reformed" for their lazy tax dodging behaviour.

claigThu 10-May-12 09:57:23

In a Ponzi scheme, debts are paid by "new" money from new suckers.

buying a gilt or high quality corporate debt from a bank is not giving them money.

What is it? Taking money from them? Is it some sort of tax on banks or some sort of banker's levy?

I thought it was loaning money to banks on the promise that they would pay it back with interest. I thought it was a way of injecting more public taxpayer money into the coffers of banks.

'The way the central bank does this is by buying assets - usually financial assets such as government and corporate bonds - using money it has simply created out of thin air.'

But of course, that thin air, is really a public liability to prop up private institutions.

And what happens if the banks can't pay it back with interest? What if they say "we are too big to fail?". It will be the good old lazy tax dodging taxpayer who will have to step in yet again to prevent them leaving the country and depriving us of their "services to banking".

New Labour knighted Fred the Shred for "services to banking". They should have knighted the public for their "services to banking", for they are truly saints, always ready to step in and save the banks and pay their bonuses.

Blimey, some people really do hold personal grudges on this thread!

If the greeks ere hardworking then their debts would not be a problem becuase they could service them. But they were an early retiring tax avoiding tax evading culture who lived on debt with poor growth. Fact. Japan has a GBP to debt ratio of 200% but they are a hardworking natin and can support this level of debt. North Korea has a GDP to Debt ratio of less than 1% yet they are not a booming economy not will they be until reunification.