To think some posters need a "reality check" re. views on benefit changes

[lesley33]

I have some concerns about some of the proposed changes to benefits and how these may adversely affect people. So this is NOT a thread about that. But I am getting increasingly fed up at some of the frankly ridiculous reasons some posters are giving against the proposed changes. Examples include:

1. That children 12 and over will be traumatised if both parents work - even if second parent only works 20 hours a week.

1. That a parent with children 12 and over shouldn't have to commute up to 90 minutes each way to work. Far from ideal I know and if someone is on low wages this might not be affordable. But perfectly doable.

1. That childcare is impossible to get for teenagers. Ignoring the fact that many parents, myself included use a combination of kids home alone and afterschool activities.

AIBU to think some people need a reality check? Plenty of people with children already work, many with both parents working full time by the time their kids are teenagers. Plenty of people have long commutes, struggle with childcare, etc. Things might not be "ideal", but these are things that many many working parents already do.

You can't remove SEN from the debate because the government have moved the goalposts for what classes as disability/SN so much that there are loads of people with quite severe disabilities that are now, on paper, classed as perfectly ok. Like Hunty and her epilepsy

Exactly.

Under the changes I will no longer be able to claim carers allowance for my son as he gets middle rate care [even though he is entitled to higher rate-but thats another thread] so I will be expected to work, even though he is still disabled and there still isnt any childcare that will take him.

Gee thanks sevenfold, I love you too.

Like I said, the insults fly when you don't agree with the party line.

Note that I have never, at any point, said those on disability benefits and I will stick up for lone parents too here, should lose out.

My issue is with the long-term unemployed. That the system is creating dependency.

However you read it any which way you wish, there are a lot of closed minds in this argument.

Agree Amber

DS3 is at an SNU, severely autistoic and will never work but gets MR Care DLA as his sleep is not badly affected.

p[eople who don't know him can rarely understand his speech and he can't ever be unsupervised but heck, not disabled right?

My teen years were similar in many ways to those of nailak and meglet

I am very, very fortunate in that I work flexitime and have a partner with whom I can share "supervision" (it's not really childcare once an NT child reaches 10 or so). There is no way I am leaving ds alone for hours and hours. No fucking way. It is miserable and it is lonely. Thank goodness I don't have to.

I would certainly expect a parent of an older child to work at least PT hours rather than relying entirely on benefits, but I fully appreciate that not everyone can find work as flexible as mine.

Plus Income Support, possibly partially or fully docked if failing to do job-hunting (sorry, not sure of details of that).

Since the entire basis of the WRB is the idea that there are indeed people choosing to live on this, the answer to your Q would have to be Yes, Tilly.

TwoIfBySea, the thing is people like me will be lumped in with the long term unemployed under the changes, so if they go ahead [which they prob will] then I will be treated the same as the people that you have an issue with.

Do you think we should be sacrificed under the changes as long as it sorts out the long term unemployed?

SN issues aside, it is quite concerning that parents feel they can't leave their 12 year olds to let themselves in after school. My mother was and still is highly neurotic but even she deemed it was safe enough for me to open the door with a key without adult assistance and we didn't live in the most savoury of areas. I plonked in front of the TV, ate some crisps and waited patiently for her to return. If your pre-teen cannot be responsible enough to do that, then I would suggest you a.) teach your child how to unlock a door, unset an alarm (if necessary) and open a cupboard to get a snack/drink and b.) consider if helicopter parenting is really working out for you.

Now again, before I get leaped on, I am not speaking about children with SN or any other additional needs. I am talking about the average 12 year old.

Nilgiri Wed 25-Jan-12 18:23:23
if someone choses not work work, they cannot then do job hunting.

so what would their weekly household income be (aside from HB)?

0 children = 0 income
1 child = £20 income per week
2 child = £30 somthing income per week

if i am missing something i dont mind i am admitting i am wrong but please tell me if there is anything on top of the above?

Peachy,my son was awake until 4:30am last night [as was I] he sleeps very little, despite that his DLA was awarded at middle rate, I was so grateful for that that I didnt dare appeal in case it was all taken away. also his award was until the day before his 16th birthday[again I was grateful for that] but now im going to be back to square one.

Mrs Heffley, you would appear to be as rigid in your thinking as you accuse those of us affected by disability to be. As various people have pointed out, we really do have fewer choices. It isn't just us though, is it. There are people who will be badly affected by this who either do not have special needs or whose special needs are unrecognised. As I pointed out on (yet) another thread, sometimes it's having family on the doorstep that keeps a family going, enables them to work. So, cut the hb, force them to move, and what have you got, an unsupported family who need to sign on because they've lost the familial support they were getting. It only needs to be a very small cut to seriously affect the finances of some people.

As far as the 35k/26k figure is concerned, please remember this is not the figure for ALL people on benefits, just a few. Some seem to imagine that there are single parents with one child swanning along on 26k!

I think a key point some are missing is that many end up long term benefits claimants BECAUSE of disability. The financial impact of disability is devastating with the current system and is only set to get worse.

As a percentage of claimants the Jeremy Kyle mob are tiny and in actual fact this group commit fraud, work on the black market, deal drugs etc, etc to get those plasma TV's etc. Sadly it's a truism that anti-social scum always seem to land on their feet.

It's the HONEST, decent claimant group who have genunely fallen on hard times due to illness/disability & the working poor who stand to lose most from the changes proposed. This group CAN'T work. The very group the welfare state was designed to protect in other words.

Training has also become much more expensive in recent years. I know many adults who in previous recessions were able to retrain to improve their chances of getting new jobs after redundancy, sadly this option is now beyond the financial reach of many. In a world where the march of technology is fast paced and relentless & global competition so fierce it seems very short-sighted of the government to be allowing so many able-bodied adults to become effectively obselete.

Can somebody saying how those with SEN will be affected show me exactly how they will be affected(no abbreviations please as I don't understand them).I understand if nobody wants to list their financial affairs but it would be useful.

Im not really sure why people are focusing on the child being 12 yrs old anyway, welfare reform as it stands means single parents are expected to be in work when their youngest child is 7 and thats going down to 5 and then possibly 3.

There arent enough childcare places as it is, I know some afterschool clubs have waiting lists and not all are cheap/subsidised so cost is an issue.

Who is going to look after all these children and where are the jobs anyway?

It's not really the letting themselves in bit, crash

My ds (Y6) has been letting himself in for a while now. He gets himself a snack, sticks on the Xbox... and one of us is home within half an hour. I'll start extending that slightly soon - but not every day.

But day in day out, from end of school day til maybe 7pm, is lonely. And the school holidays are too.

Of course by the time they're 15-ish it really isn't a problem (although I still hope to be around a bit after school and in the holidays - they still need you!).

AmberLeaf, lone parents are all lumped together regardless of the circumstances that lead to becoming a single parent.

They always punish the one who stays.

Anyway from what I've read many of the disability parts are excluded from the limit.

OK well because ds1 gets Middle Level DLA for Care I will lose my carer's allowance and that means I will ahve to work 20 hours or we will lose all help (DH already works)

Because my boys have Autism and can never be left alone, I have to be here at 8.30 and 3.30 for bus drop off; that can easily be half an hour late. Neither orf their SN Schools runs any form of breakfast club, and they could not attend even if it did due to their needs. One school is a primary, the other a comp.

I ahve no family locally and there simply is no childcare available. Social SAervices told me if I used chidlcare and ds1 hurt someone (something he has not done since- oooh- yesterday) they would take action against us.

Five eyars ago we were a well earning family then I had to become a carer when I graduated isntead of completing my PGCE, and Dh was amde redundant and ahs ahd to retrain. He has worked alongside and we have never claimed unemployment benefits and to be honest, I resent having been bundled as undeserving by many under the heading of 'claimant'. Claimant means nothing about you as a person! IS my Grandad, 91, worked all his life, war vet and now dependent the same as someone 19, addicted to heroin and on 43 ASBO's?

It would seem to many that he is, just because he gets some HB to top up his pensions.

Diabled families are excluded BUT theya re redifing disablility as Higher Rate or above for care.

That means that any child no matter how severe is excluded as long as they sleep between 11 and 6 with no waking periods over 20 minutes.

The only difference between Middle Rate Care and Higher Rate Care, is that the Higher Rate Care is for night time care as well. So, it is accepted that, at Middle Rate Care, a high level of care is required, but because the person concerned has a reasonable night, they don't need a carer. Doesn't seem right, does it.

Alouise, There is a school local to me where the YMCA runs a holiday club. My two teenagers went to it years ago. It was £32 per day per child back then, plus extra for lunch. So I can easily imagine it costing about £40 a day now.

In central London, say, it would be more because staff wages would be more.

I don't think the schools run the holiday clubs themseves; mostly they rent out the premises to other providers.

People didn't believe me either when I told them what I was paying.

Anyway from what I've read many of the disability parts are excluded from the limit

Thats true, but its being taken away under other parts of the reforms.

Oh also we will be affected as:

they ahve dropped the tax credit disability portion after one disabled child; anyone who beleives two or more disabled child is not an added challenge is IMO daft, but they have ended it anyway. They have also halved the payment for MR children (see explanation of what middle rate covers above).

When PIP (personal Independence Plans) come in a great many will be excluded becuase of the tick box nature of the forms. People without a mmobility difficulty with be unlikely to be able to claim- ds3 does not fulfil the criteria- and if they do not attend workfare (because of their SN...) they will be removed from the benefit system for up to three months as punishment.

Anyone who can wheel their wheelchair 100 m on the flat will lose mobility allowance and therefore be unable to access an adapted car, and quite possibly become completely housebound, unless a law is brought in to ensure there is a bus stop within 100 m of every disabled person's house and a guaranteed space (never filled by another wheelchair user) on an properly accessible (not ramps; drivers are apparenly not legally obliged to engage ramps and oftenn just refuse) bus.

Do I really have to carry on? Am already taking citalopram, don't need more depresing stats!

Doesn;t matter bill it is under IMO, it is the cumulative effect that matters.

Peachy

Could you not work from home, I did for a while and it worked around school time.
You clearly know how to write so could put it to good use.

LineRunner I live in the same town as HuntyCat believe me "I know" that holiday clubs are not £50 a day.

No, I would love to but it a breech of the tenancy agreement; it is with the vast majority of them. I only found that out when I went to see someone about setting up seld employed, they said I would have to show a tenancy agreement with permission to Inland revenue at my first inspection and oculd not operate without it, LL's insurance forbids it.

Dh however has managed to get a place at a business centre so can work there and then be home for paerwork when the boys gets here but we are an anomally that he can do it, and if he had not been already established in his field he would not be able to afford the rent. When he can do that I fully intend to start looking for work but my field (autism, almost finished my MA) has been decimated by cuts. I COULD work in Tesco etc except they ahve hundreds of people for every job and want experience that I do not have, my experience is all charity sector.