WTF are Frothers? Have you seen them around and wondered? Not a quiche, but a protest group. Tory, Labour, Lib Dems - Common Goal - Protest Against the Cuts

[MmeLindor.]

What are the Frothers?

The term "Frothers" came about one dank and dismal November day in 2011. A frustrated user of the parenting forum Mumsnet started a thread about her dismay at the cuts that the Conservative/Liberal Democrat government was inflicting on the British public.

She stated that she was not "quite a frothing berserker but I am getting rather cross with our government messing with the good stuff".

The good stuff - policies, benefits, institutions that had taken years to achieve were being cut for no good reason, often leaving gaping holes in the fabric of British society.

The NHS, with which we Brits have a love-hate relationship, but like a favourite sibling, we wish to protect from harm.

Sure Start, a successful scheme that supported parents who were struggling and offered children from deprived backgrounds a better start in life.

Universal Child Benefit was cut for those families who had one earner bringing in more than £44k a year. If both parents each earn less than £44k, they keep their UCB payments. This obviously hit single parents and families with a single earner hardest.

Disability Living Allowance and Employment and Support Allowance - which enabled those with disabilities to live a decent life, without feeling that they were begging for assistance or were a burden to the taxpayer.

Student Fees, the introduction of which, contrary to Lib Dem pre-election promises, means that a whole generation of young people will have to think carefully before applying to higher education.

These and many other cuts are being made in the name of austerity. We are "all in this together", but some of us are deeper in this than others.

We all understand that there are sacrifices to be made but why should these sacrifices be borne by those who already have so little?

The general public seems oblivious of the dangers being faced, they are unaware of the injustices being wrought on the already disadvantaged.

The government is winning the war of the headlines. They have blasted the recipients of DLA and ESA as scrounger and cheats so often that the general public believe it. They misinterpret data to "prove" their points. Teachers are painted as being irresponsible and greedy, while the bankers rake in the money.

The poster on Mumsnet was not alone for long. Within a few days, a group of over 30 posters had formed. They asked themselves, "What can we do?".

The idea of a blog was born. Three days later the blog had over thirty authors signed up, a Facebook page and a Twitter account.

The Aims:

• to open the general publics' eyes to the injustices being created by the governement

• to inform those who are facing cuts about their rights

• to link with other activists and charities, in order to put pressure on the government

Are you a Frother?

Come and join us.

BLOG

FACEBOOK

TWITTER

God Hunty.

And the attack on you gives the lie (if it were needed) to the claims that Joe Public is concerned about fraud but wants to look after genuine sick/disabled people.

That woman called you a scrounger because you had a seizure. That's all she knows about you - nothing about your financial affairs.

Visibly, unmistakably sick = scrounger.

Hunty, I wish I could have been there to give her a piece of my mind and shamelessly buy value chicken and cheap eggs alongside you.

I buy cheap chicken because it's the only meat my ds likes and I can't afford to be choosy either. I would love to be able to afford to be ethical. I would buy free range, free trade and ecologically friendly without hesitation if I could. There is something unethical itself about a large section of society being unable to exercise choice in consumer ethics.

Well I started the first thread that inspired the frothers and the whole point was that the only requirement was feeling that the government was not being fair and feeling cross about it. It is so important that all who see wrong stand up and say no. It's the old "it only takes a few good men to say nothing for evil to flourish" adage.

Besides, it's not just the sick, poor and disabled that are being targeted. The employment, education and health changes affect everyone either directly or indirectly.

Froth away without guilt. The fact you can afford a holiday, to run a car, shop at Waitrose, or anything else like that is irrelevant to the fact that many, many groups are getting hammered and do not have the luxury of time or finances to stand up and say this is not right. Like me!

Actually I was on the thread about value food. I don't think it was anyone having a go particularly. Several people (me included) voiced the opinion that buying non-free range chickens is not something we do (for me personally it's because the idea of eating something pumped with water and hormones is less preferable to eating veggie). We all draw a line relative to our circumstances. A few people did come across as lacking in empathy but ultimately it wasn't a them and us thread really. I think seeker has been unfairly lambasted.

Obviously I support the point that if people cannot afford to eat good quality protein in this country where retailers make obscene profits selling the stuff that is very wrong.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9027846/The-rise-of-the-overclass.html

"We?ve all heard of the 'underclass?: now its mirror image ? a super-rich elite that is equally cut off from the rest of us ? is defining the political debate."

Jeez, Hunty. You should have pelted her with (free range) eggs.

Forget about free range eggs, the chickens are often not much better off cause they fight and peck at each other.

Biwi
Don't stop frothing. I know that some people sneer at the "champagne socialist" types, and I don't really give a damn. Those who do the sneering tend to be the types who would walk past a starving man and begrudge having to share air with him. I had a bit of a barny recently on Twitter with a stuck up 24yo madam who lives well from the money her DH makes.

All those snobs on AIBU complaining about scroungers - I would like to know how many of them work for their money, and how many were lucky enough to be born or to marry into money.

We are in a difficult situation in our lives right now, we don't know where we will end up, we don't have a new apartment yet, and no idea when we will find one. But we are bloody fortunate that we have family and assistance from DH's company.

I am using the lull before the storm of packing and moving to do a bit of frothing. Might as well try and give back a bit of my fortune.

HUNTY
Wish I were closer and could give you my old hoover. I do have a mobile phone that I would offer you, I see you have had other offers. Do let us help you out a little bit though.

I am well out of order here but I don't care.

I've just bought one of these on overpriced credit. It's wizard - and very, very light (less than 2kg) which overcomes one of my big cleaning problems. You have to empty it a lot, and it does seem a bit flimsy, but it works well.

Was just wondering if somebody might consider getting one for Hunty.

Hunty that is truly despicable, I am so sorry.

Just came home to a message from ATOS to ring them on monday. Now I'm scared. I don't want to go to an ATOS medical. What's the point? They will look at me walk in and pick up a coin off the floor and pronounce me fit to work. Well maybe they would give me a job then.

Any tips on dealing with them??

Garlic
I would be happy to contribute towards a Hoover - had already thought of offering but didn't know quite how.

Madhairday
Oh, how scary for you. Do you have someone who can go with you?

Yes, madhair - even though I'm putting off my own application because I find it so upsetting! Appreciate that the examiner's there to fill out the questionnaire as accurately as possible, not to con you. Many do have a bad attitude, but not all and it's self-defeating to assume the worst. Don't be pulled in by attempts at empathy; ATOS chose to hear criticism as "insufficient empathy" and gave them all niceness training

Read up on the terms used for descriptors (use Benefits & Work, plus the forums on MSE & BBC). You're dealing with a machine, it can't interpret meanings. Don't try to look nicer than usual or to gain sympathy, that will only confuse the message.

Good luck!

Good point. MmeL :) You can take someone with you though you have to advise them first. This person is allowed to take notes - they try to say you can't but, as long as you've stated this intention, they can't stop you.

madhairday I made myself a black triangle armband for my ATOS shit.

Slice of old trouser leg fastened with safety pins, with the magic of wunderweb so I didn't have to sew the triangle on (point down, if you're interested).

Won't improve the result, but it's a gesture of resistance rather colluding in the assessors delusion they're engaged in something valid or reasonable.

[Disclaimer: of course properly conducted medicals for the right reasons would be valid. Sham "medicals" by non-doctors with the specific aim of withdrawing support from actually sick people are not valid.]

assessors'

madhairday
google "how to pass Atos" and have a look at some of the websites that come up. Not sure how much help they are cause they seem to contradict each other.

Another recommendation for Benefits and Work website. It explains what some of the questions mean - which is not what they say!

So "Can you do X?" means "Can you do X repeatedly without excessive tiredness or pain or being made more ill by doing it?" Not the same thing at all.

And "Do you watch films?" means "Do you sit still and concentrate for 90 mins?"

Which is a classic Too Clever By Half. I used to watch predominantly films because they were what came on DVDs and could therefore be watched in 15-20 min slots when I felt best. While lying with just my head raised.

How do I answer when it's a fluctuating condition - ie I could watch a film tonight no problem, but a few weeks ago before I went in to hospital I was either flat out in bed or would have to stop it while I coped with pain/breathlessness - so do you say that or just that the worse is always the case...I'm confused as they did have 'it varies' on their lists.

Thanks for the advice and links. :)

The hoover probem is being sorted. My mate who is a fixer-upper is back from working in Mauritius, and he is going to come round on Monday and beat my broken hoover into submission. He's such a great bloke to know, but he's not normally back from Mauritius until mid-feb. I rang his wife today to see if she wanted to get the dc in their wellies to go puddle-splashing in the country park up the road - and he answered. for him that his job has ended 6 weeks early this year, but for me, as he'll be able to fix my hoover. God bless my RL friends.

I feel funny abot anyone sending me a phone, tbh. I wasn't posting to get stuff, I was posting to relieve the factor, and to kick myself out of feeling sorry for myself. Which it did. My main problem is that all the cheap phones in the orange shop that I CAN use my orange phone fund on are sold out right now, but when the £30 or less ones come back in, I can get myself a new one.

The woman in Tesco's cafe, I can only assme she had an empathy bypass at birth. I am going to think of her as having an emotional disability, as that is srely what being unable to feel empathy must be. At least I am more able than her with that one! Had a banging headache all day, after-effects of the seizure, unfortnately.

If my posts are missing any 'u's, it's because I have been eating my homemade biccies over the keyboard, and have a crumb under it, and cba to clean it.

Do we have a new thread? Because this one is nearly full!

Tell them. Don't pretend that every day is a "worst day" but describe your worst and say how often it happens (on that front, though, exaggerate rather than underplaying it.) Their system hasn't yet been adjusted for variable conditions (haha) but they are supposed to input what you say. The assessor will then use your replies to decide whether you're bad enough, often enough to count.

You can find the exact amounts of 'incapacity' required by searching through the websites. The DWP publishes them.

If you have variations that last for weeks or months, you should sign off during a good period, then reapply when you get bad. This is what Sue Marsh has been doing - ironically, she probably wouldn't have suffered her recent DLA refusal if she'd not signed herself off earlier.

The system does need reforming, because of such lunacies, but for now it's best to help the machine ...

Hunty, I've got a Blackberry Pearl that's registered to Orange. I've lost its PC connector and it's a bit bashed up, so I can't sell it. PM me your address if you want it.

Just caught up, and feeling better having read the exchange with BIWI. I was feeling a little 'out of it' again, in that some of the detailed stuff you are talking about I have no experience of. But that absolutely doesn't mean that I don't care. Regardless of our own circumstances, we should still stand up for what's right.

Had a really frustrating discussion with someone the other day who was going on about Housing Benefit scroungers, and how it was ridiculous that HB was given out at varied rates dpending on what your rent was. He argued that, if you go out and get a job, they don't ask you what your outgoings are and pay you wages based on that; they pay a set wage, and you budget your life to fit within it, buying smaller houses, spending less on holidays etc according to the level of the income.

I could honestly see his point. He felt that landlords would set rents at whatever level they liked, and then the tennants would just pass the cost over to the state through HB, basically meaning he was paying for their high cost house through his taxes.

I don't understand the system enough to be able to argue this point... But I do know it isn't always that straight forward.

Does anyone know why HB is seperated out and not included with main jobseekers payments??

I really wanted to be able to argue ---but couldn't!

Hunty
I think we have a Blackberry pc connecter/charger thing, if you want to accept Garlic's offer.

We know you weren't trying to blag stuff. It would make us feel good to know that we were able to help you out, even just a little bit.

Yummy: HB is set according to what the government says you need. It's also available as a top-up for working people whose wages are so low they can't afford the accommodation the government says they need. Only 1 in 8 Housing Benefit recipients are unemployed.

So if your friend had two kids but, as he says, couldn't afford more than a one-bed flat, he could get HB to make up his shortfall. It would, however, only top him up to a two-bed in the lowest third of the local market. He'd have to choose between staying cramped where he was, or moving to a larger but crappier flat in a cheaper district.

Most people on minimum wage need the top-up. (This is one of the underlying problems with the way our welfare economy supports skinflint employers.) Problem is, there's insufficient housing available at the low rents now covered by HB.

OpinionMum did a v. good post on this: toomanycuts.blogspot.com/2012/01/hidden-housing-crisis-impending.html

New Frothers thread here