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Original poster

Too Many Cuts...come join the #Frothers and have your say

942 replies

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 07/12/2011 21:23

This is the 3rd thread in a series.

It is for people who are horrified, frustrated and downright sad at the erosion of human rights with respect to how this country is being run, just now and in the recent past

it is apolitical in nature, but of course due to many recent initiatives by the recent govt, there will be rants against our current "leaders"

please join in

I shall post the link to the old threads, our "Too Many Cuts #Frothers" blog that is attracting a lot of widespread attention and a little bit of what we are about in a moment

OP posts:
Peachy · 12/12/2011 12:27

Not everyone with a large family could not afford them when they ahd them: life throws things at you. A two working parents family can become a family with very limited means almost in an instant.

Is all.

CardyMow · 12/12/2011 12:29

No, you HAVEN'T got the wrong end of the stick, I am afraid. Yes, childcare costs can be claimed - but there is a chance that your Workfare placement is at a time when no childcare is available - night shift anyone? - and if you DON'T do your Workfare - they can stop you UC for 3 months (1st time), 6 months (2nd time), and 3 YEARS (3rd time).

Oh - and the placements right now are up to 6 months, but they are talking about extending that to 2 YEAR WORKFARE PLACEMENTS.

The Workfare participants don't ever actually come off JSA/UC - their income is NOT paid by the business using them as slave labour - in fact, the government pays the JSA/UC, and THEN pays Mr.Tesco to HAVE unpaid slaves Workfare participants working there...Pondland and Matalan also do this, amongst others...

And YES, it WILL have a huge knock-on effect on the AMOUNT of NMW jobs available - it's already happening. There hasn't been ONE job advertised at my local Tesco's for, wait for it - OVER A YEAR.

And the Workfare participants have NO employment rights - no right to sick pay, no rights to breaks, unlike paid staff, no maternity/paternity rights. It's indentured slavery by another name, breadandbutterfly.

Peachy · 12/12/2011 12:30

Hunty, as main carer if I manage to find 20 hours work, but Dh does not manage to turn over 35 hours, what happens to me as a result?

CardyMow · 12/12/2011 12:30

Santa - Yes, if you as a lone parent can earn £212 (POST TAX, it's £228 PRE-tax) in 10 hours - then that is fine. If you can do it, then YAY!

Peachy · 12/12/2011 12:31

(Actually more accurately if Dh does not manage to turn over 35 hour sprofits- he always does far more in actual time)

SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan · 12/12/2011 12:32

i'm laughing at the idea of being able to get a police checked, passed standards, childminder to do an overnight shift in ones home for todays equivalent of £20. times are TOTALLY different now.

SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan · 12/12/2011 12:34

i'd like to see a single parent given a 50% higher tax free allowance personally. that would make a big difference. instead we want to give a tax break to married couples Confused

MmeLindor. · 12/12/2011 12:34

Boffy
One of the main points that this thread has outlined is that childcare is expensive.

I challenge you to find a person willing to do "nightshift" care for £20 a night.

And you would be in trouble if you tried to do so as that person would be working illegally.

I don't doubt that you know some workshy scroungers, and I agree that they shoudl be made to work.

But for the sake of a few benefit cheats, who cost the country less than eg tax evasion, we are going to plunge thousands of families into poverty.

Peachy · 12/12/2011 12:34

Besides, a CM that comes to your home is a Nanny.

And must be paid minimum wage surely?

MmeLindor. · 12/12/2011 12:35

yes, Peachy. Not to mention CRB checks, income tax, etc etc

Peachy · 12/12/2011 12:35

Yes Santa, I don't get the married couple's allowance either, even as one.

SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan · 12/12/2011 12:35

it's funny actually how they started out wanting to encourage and help sahp/wohp married couples by letting them pass over part of their tax allowance when now they've gone this way which seems to totally contradict the values they were allegedly peddling at election time.

KalSkirata · 12/12/2011 12:35

It is all a moot point, provided the Household earns over £17,389 pa.

So does that mean if you earn that much no-one will be forced onto workfare/second job etc? DH earns 17K exactly. Its people under that much who will be penalised?

SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan · 12/12/2011 12:37

yes - that was pre MW. a 12 shift now would cost over £72 and realistically you'd have to include an unsociable hours element to it. i think you'd be looking at minimum £90 pay plus employer contributions on top. not very viable for average night shift worker is it?

do think!!!

slug · 12/12/2011 12:54

OK. Have writted a post about student fees. Can one of you more experienced frothers cast an eye over it before I publish it? It's in Drafts, "But What About The Children?"

CardyMow · 12/12/2011 12:55

Right - I'll try to answer as many questions as I can!

Santa - They don't take the whole lot of your earnings off you. Your household will have a particular earnings disregard. Anything you earn OVER that is taken OUT of the UC at 65%. It's a bit complicated, but I've worked out how it works.

Lone Parents have to earn the equivalent of NMW@20hrs to avoid Conditionality. NMW for 20hrs is £121.60. No Tax or NI off that because that is the threshold. So a LP has to earn a minimum of £121.60 to escape Conditionality.

A disabled person will be allowed to have NO Conditionality if they are in the SUPPORT GROUP of ESA OR HRC on DLA. A disabled person will have the 20hrs/wk thing if they are in the WRAG of ESA OR on LRC on DLA. A disabled person will have the full 35hr/wk expectation if they do not get either ESA or DLA.

Your conditionality levels do not accumulate if you are disabled AND a Lone parent - you can only either be in the NO Conditionality group, the 20hrs/wk group or the 35 hrs/wk group. No other concessions for multiple difficulties.

CardyMow · 12/12/2011 12:58

Breadandbutterfly - If one person is under the 35hrs/wk group, and has een put on workfare - theother person in the couple is meant to be looking for 20hrs/wk work TOO, and they could face their OWN Workfare if they don't. Each person in a couple will face their OWN conditionality levels UNLESS one person earns MORE THAN £17,389, or the couple's combined income is more than £17,398.

Original poster
AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 12/12/2011 13:01

slug what do you mean "it's in drafts" ?

OP posts:
CardyMow · 12/12/2011 13:01

Rudolph - SE is classed as making the equivalent of NMW for either 20hrs or 35 hrs, depending on what your situation is (LP/main carer in a couple/main earner). If you are NOT making that much, or are even making a loss - your income will STILL be classed as if that person is making the income to meet NMW for that amount of hours, 20 or 35 depending. OR you as a SE person can decide whether to accept Conditionality on TOP of running your SE business. But it's only a choice for the first YEAR. After that, if you are NOT making NMW for 20/35hrs - you WILL be put under the Conditionality for your situation.

RudolphthePinkNosedReindeer · 12/12/2011 13:02

It seems to me that there is going to be a problem finding workfare placements. How many places would they need FGS?

CardyMow · 12/12/2011 13:02

Peachy - If you then do not meet the Conditionality due to being SE, after the first year, then you will face the Sanction levels.

CardyMow · 12/12/2011 13:06

TheHumanCatapult - I am ALSO facing the Disabled or Carer choice. Not allowed to be BOTH as a Lone parent. However - if you are part of a couple, one person is 'allowed' to be classed as disabled, and the OTHER is allowed to be designated as a Carer - even if it is DC they are caring for. How to penalise DISABLED LONE PARENTS.

Oh - and only ONE of your dc is allowed to be disabled, too apparently - you will only be able to claim the child disability element of UC for ONE dc. That fucks me and Peachy over.

CardyMow · 12/12/2011 13:07

Kal - If your household income (either one higher earner, or two lower earners combined) is OVER £17,389 pa, then no-one in your household will face Conditionality. If you are under, even by a penny - then you WILL face Conditionality.

slug · 12/12/2011 13:09

AF, if you log into the blog (if you are a contributor that is) Go to Posting >Edit Posts and you will see it at the top of the list. Click on it and you will see it sans paragraphs and formatting.

Peachy · 12/12/2011 13:10

But will it be him that faces the sanctions, not me?

He won;t do workfare- well he will then have a breakdown on day 3, such is his MH issue level but I cannot change that.

Is it first year of being SE or first year of UC?

Another question (sorry): CAB advise that DH registers as a carer when he graduates to get reduced conditionality (I am also a carer but obviously we have multiple disabled children), I read that won't be possible as it will be one CA perfamily- who is right please?